Author Topic: You know what they could make that would sell?  (Read 2295 times)

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Offline Kayo

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2012, 08:06:35 PM »
And no, EVs aren't the only thing. In Gen II, IVs were used to determine gender and shininess. In later gens, however, they use the personality value. The converter would need to be set up in such a way that the trainer ID, SID, and personality value of each Pokemon don't cause a conflict. A lot of the time, this won't be an issue. However, even if each Pokemon is given its own SID, there's a chance that a shiny Pokemon won't be shiny after tranfer, or a male will become a female, or vice-versa.
Oh yeah, I completely forgot this. Yeah, it's in no way possible to carry all this over perfectly.
Besides, I'd rather play my favorite old Pokemon on the game where they performed the best. Psychic types were the best in Gen I, so leave them there.

And it goes back to a tl;dr Everybody stop being suck lazy intercourse s and intercourse ing train Pokemon again dear god you complain about the games not giving you enough free passes just shut up
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Offline Hero_of_Darkness

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2012, 09:16:53 PM »
I said simple solution not best. A better compromise would be to take the square root of the EVs, then scale back to 510 if the max is still too high, possibly scaling the weaker stats back more to preserve the best stats. Natures can also be used to adjust the stats to a closer match. Combine that with the fact that the discrepancy scales with level, and most pokemon are not level 100 (aside from rare candy duplication, but those pokemon wont have maxed EVs) and the changes will be unnoticeable to the average player.


Everything else is not a problem as long as we only need to move forwards.
IVs need to be doubled, which leaves room for a rounding error of 1 on each stat. That's enough room to come up with a close, if not exact, hidden power match.

Gen 2 does not have a personality value to preserve, so one can be procedurally generated to preserve everything else. This is always possible.



Of course the simpler option for everybody would be to revamp the pokemon data again in gen vi to accommodate both systems. Perhaps introduce some 'legacy pokemon' concept that allows overcharged EVs. Balance would not be an issue considering all the disadvantages such pokemon would have (no egg moves, dream world abilities, etc.)
I was going to type up an argument to this, but I don't see this going anywhere since you obviously think that there are no limits with programming. That last paragraph is such a silly idea that I don't even know where to begin.

Offline Flying Chickens

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2012, 10:03:04 PM »
I was going to type up an argument to this, but I don't see this going anywhere since you obviously think that there are no limits with programming. That last paragraph is such a silly idea that I don't even know where to begin.
You're such a pessimist, I'm taking away your speaking rights until you learn how to look on the bright side of life. Fuck, go eat a Happy Meal or something, you glass-half-empty fascist.

Offline zephilicious

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2012, 01:18:32 AM »
since you obviously think that there are no limits with programming.

I hate saying this, but I have a bachelor's degree in CS. This is completely true and you'd have to be an idiot to disagree.

(i lied i dont hate bragging)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 01:20:42 AM by zephilicious »
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Offline Hero_of_Darkness

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2012, 04:25:29 AM »
Maybe "impossible" was a bit strong, but "impractical" definitely fits. Plus, I honestly don't think it would sell, especially once word of mouth about the compromises gets out.

And thinking that "no egg moves past Gen II" would balance a maxed-out Tyranitar is just... what? And then add in the legendaries...
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 04:50:40 AM by Hero_of_Darkness »

Offline Zero

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2012, 11:34:29 AM »
They should just start from scratch imo.

Fuck EVs and IVs. There just has to be a better way.

Offline Hero_of_Darkness

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2012, 03:07:18 PM »
They should just start from scratch imo.

Fuck EVs and IVs. There just has to be a better way.
There really isn't. At least, nothing that wouldn't make it even more complex either for players or GF. And it's not like they're complicated in the first place. :/ IV breeding is annoying, but EV training has been made ridiculously easy at this point.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 03:08:46 PM by Hero_of_Darkness »

Offline zephilicious

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2012, 03:32:55 PM »
Without them every pokemon is identical. This is clearly not a good solution.

If there is any individuality system in place it can and will be abused. The system as it stands now works well because most people have no reason to bother with it, and dont know they're missing anything.

For the people that want to abuse it, items introduced in recent generations make it incredibly easy to do so.

currently the only people that have issue with the system is the very small group on the border that know EVs and IVs exist but cant or wont bother to learn how to use them.

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Offline RX-78-2

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2012, 03:08:45 AM »
Wow, this is an interesting idea. I'd like to see it happen too, but I'm not sure it can be done. While I don't think it's impossible (practically impossible, yes) to have your old Pokémon in the newer games, I'm not sure that the device would work in the way that you suggested, Riddler.

The only thing I can come up with is the honor system, which would be abused to no end. Developers could make a device that connects to the DS games that use the same game mechanics and the player would input the stats, movesets, etc. of their Pokémon from the older game and the device would create the newer stats for the Pokémon with a RNG. Maybe the "transferred" Pokémon would be programmed to not be allowed in trades or real battles. I don't know.

As for if it would sell, that depends on the price. Diehard fans would probably go for it if it was $20 at most. I'm not sure if anyone would pay more. I know I'd pay 35$ at most.
I dunno hao 2 put imgs heer :(

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Offline Zero

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2012, 06:16:37 AM »
There really isn't. At least, nothing that wouldn't make it even more complex either for players or GF. And it's not like they're complicated in the first place. :/ IV breeding is annoying, but EV training has been made ridiculously easy at this point.

currently the only people that have issue with the system is the very small group on the border that know EVs and IVs exist but cant or wont bother to learn how to use them.


I wasn't really suggesting we take out any form of individuality system, just you know, improve on the one we have or start of scratch with a revamped system. Nor was I suggesting that my problem was that they were complicated(laughable).

You're correct that any system will be abused, but your assumption right here is not. I'm not a part of either camp. I play pokemon competitively, but find it incredibly annoying to this day to breed for IVs or EV train. Maybe its because I still enjoy pokemon but don't have the time to invest in breeding for IVs or maybe its because the system is completely arbitrary to begin with. Either way, its a poopty system over all. When exploiting it, often times you're left over with 2 EV points for example. Trying to say they we can't have something better is pretty cynical.

I've turned to Battle Simulators like Pokemon Online and Shoddy because of how they take all of that bullpoop out of the equation.

Offline Kayo

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2012, 02:33:39 PM »

I wasn't really suggesting we take out any form of individuality system, just you know, improve on the one we have or start of scratch with a revamped system. Nor was I suggesting that my problem was that they were complicated(laughable).

You're correct that any system will be abused, but your assumption right here is not. I'm not a part of either camp. I play pokemon competitively, but find it incredibly annoying to this day to breed for IVs or EV train. Maybe its because I still enjoy pokemon but don't have the time to invest in breeding for IVs or maybe its because the system is completely arbitrary to begin with. Either way, its a poopty system over all. When exploiting it, often times you're left over with 2 EV points for example. Trying to say they we can't have something better is pretty cynical.

I've turned to Battle Simulators like Pokemon Online and Shoddy because of how they take all of that bullpoop out of the equation.
Or you can just use Pokesav to make your life easier. I've done it before, but I try to avoid guilt by not doing anything on there that I couldn't just do myself (albeit taking much more time to do so).

I acquire the Pokemon's parents and breed them normally, then I upload the offspring, correct its IVs a bit (I'm not enough of a dick to do full 31s), and give it EVs there before sending it back to my game. Then I train it up from level 1.

I've done IV breeding before, and while the results are something to be proud of, it's pure hell. Plus, B/W changed the Wi-Fi battle system so you can no longer do IV battles. To be honest, spending days breeding a competitively acceptable Pokemon just sucked all the fun out of it. I don't feel like I'm cheating with the way I Pokesav, since I'm just cutting a process from a few hours down to a few minutes. That way I can feed my craving for perfection, then just train the Pokemon up without a hassle like I did back in the simpler times of gens I-III.

Also, I don't really even use the Pokesav Pokemon in competitive battling; they're more because competitive battling has tainted me to the point where I'm not exactly comfortable training a Pokemon in a newer game that's not living up to its full potential, but now I can take all the blood, sweat, and tears out of making them near-perfect. Plus, there's the resulting satisfaction of getting a Pokemon to level 100 and seeing that its Attack or HP is as high as it could possibly be.
I really hate how I've made more than 12,000 posts here. Thankfully this swaying, moving Chandelure makes it all worth it.

Offline zephilicious

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2012, 03:51:39 PM »
I acquire the Pokemon's parents and breed them normally, then I upload the offspring, correct its IVs a bit (I'm not enough of a dick to do full 31s), and give it EVs there before sending it back to my game. Then I train it up from level 1.

this makes no sense, leveling up is possibly (depending on luck with IVs) the most time consuming part of the process
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Offline Hero_of_Darkness

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2012, 04:13:08 PM »
this makes no sense, leveling up is possibly (depending on luck with IVs) the most time consuming part of the process
To be fair, it's not that hard in Black and White.

Offline Kayo

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2012, 05:40:23 PM »
this makes no sense, leveling up is possibly (depending on luck with IVs) the most time consuming part of the process
You have OBVIOUSLY never IV bred before. It's torturous.

At least leveling up is actually fun; I grew up entering battle after battle and getting EXP. In fact, I hate when my Pokemon level up too quickly. Pretty much all my Pokemon in Black version are above level 75, and I don't really like that, since battling loses its fun after you can kill everything in a single hit without even using the awesome strategy you bred that Pokemon to have.

But yeah, I don't give a intercourse  if leveling up takes more time, it's the most fun part. I don't breed Pokemon just to get them to level 100 ASAP; I like to have a little fun with 'em. And like I said, it's what I've been doing since my first Pokemon game. Not IV breeding.
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Offline zephilicious

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2012, 01:29:32 AM »
You have OBVIOUSLY never IV bred before. It's torturous.
With a good set of dittos its very easy to breed for perfect in one stat. (which works as speed is generally the only stat where the difference between 20 something and 31 is relevant, and even then the meta game is far less speed centered now than it was last gen)

since battling loses its fun after you can kill everything in a single hit without even using the awesome strategy you bred that Pokemon to have.
there is literally no strategy whatsoever to any in game battles
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