<+Clu> Silverhawk79 is just wrong for me
Started by Macawmoses, April 03, 2011, 12:23:35 am
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Quote from: Genius on May 05, 2011, 01:52:44 pmNo, no. I'm not cynical. I'm cynical and right. There's a difference.
QuoteWhat exactly are they doing to change that at all?
QuoteSure, in the same way you could say that nobody can say for sure that you'll die from jumping off a plane without a parachute.
QuoteYou seem to have missed the part where small gaming sites aren't gonna start a thing, since there are fifty thousand others out there that people already don't care about.
QuoteWrong. As I stated, Nsider2 was "successful" (I use the term loosely) because it was run by someone who treats websites as a business venture.
QuoteBecause that's certainly gone so well up until now. Brought in all kinds of new people, right? Just tell them how unique you guys are. That's sure to bring them flooding in.You don't seem to understand. Everyone in the world could know about this site. Doesn't mean that they give a crap about it. Do you honestly believe that just being known is good enough? You missed my entire point. Someone might visit the site, but what's really there to make them come back again? Let's use that Shh Mom site as an example. I wouldn't mind seeing a count of the number of unique visitors for the past few months. It's likely low, but I'd imagine that even the people that did stumble upon it somehow probably just saw some subpar gaming blog and never gave it another look. As for this site....well, I think it goes without saying that nobody's gonna see the place and sign up just because they thought it looked cool.
QuoteSo insignificant things suddenly become significant once somebody notices them? Sorry, your insignificant little corner of the internet doesn't mean a thing to anyone, whether they see it or not. There's absolutely nothing that's gonna pull people in. Contrary to what you may believe, people won't magically believe that your site is better than the thousands of other sites for the same thing. If you can't offer something that the competition can't, don't even. All those "small gaming sites" you see as a start to this glorious network are worthless if they can't offer users something they can't get elsewhere. And sorry, your "unique" community doesn't cut it. If you want a site like that to be successful, you'd better at least have media connections, or else all you're doing is just parroting back what you heard on bigger, more important gaming sites.
QuoteSo you think that if you try a failed strategy for long enough, it'll eventually be successful? Well, feel free to waste away your life trying the same thing until it eventually works. That sure sounds like waiting for success to be handed to you to me.
Quote from: Macawmoses on May 05, 2011, 02:56:58 pmYour argument seems to centre on the success of NSFCD.
Quote from: Macawmoses on May 05, 2011, 02:56:58 pmAs for other sites being built, last I checked we have media connections and more -- some of which some websites have yet to foster. We're getting world firsts and exclusives. Yes, they're on an indie level, but they're unique.We've built a base of contacts. Actually, no, we haven't. I have. If SHH (et al.) were just like every other site, we'd be using the Arras Wordpress theme. Let me know the next time your websites are on the same mailing list as Rock Paper Shotgun, Destructoid, or what have you.
Quote from: Friendly Hostile on May 05, 2011, 03:14:46 pmBut Genius, do you honestly think they're going to drop everything because you poo poo the idea? You've done this on every little spinoff you show up on. You're a cynical bastard. You only ever to show up to proclaim doom and gloom.Let them try and do something, and if it fails, it fails. Are you hoping that you get to say I told you so when it does?
Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 pmThere's also a difference between that and being cynical and wrong, and I'm sure you're familiar with this.
Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 pmI simply refer you to the above. Rather, the entire discussion of this thread (as it was originally). Go back and read what's going on, then we'll talk.
Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 pmPlease tell me the origin of Facebook. Successful now, isn't it? Very. Did it start successful? It was started by college students. Hey wait, aren't Silver and Mack both college students? I'm not saying NSFCD will be as successful as Facebook, but neither of them started in high areas. Your argument doesn't mean poop since several websites disproved it. And some such websites have failed, as well. I said we don't know. And we don't, but you'll never know until you try. At least we're trying.
Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 pmHow do you think they all got there?
Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 pmBut I'm not wrong.. it was created as an exact copy of NSider, and thus attracted the majority of NSiders, and continues to do so today.
Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 pmYou missed my entire point. We don't care if we have millions of people visiting our sites or not. We care that the people that DO all share common interests, which is the goal of a community. That's what NSFCD is, a community. I'm saying, the same people that visit NSFCD visit all its affiliated sites. I was practically agreeing with you, and you didn't even notice. Priceless.
Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 pmOh okay, just use the same exact argument over and over again and people will believe in it, right? Wrong. But if you insist playing at that level, I'm happy to settle. Just look back at Facebook again. How on earth could a social networking site get to be so successful when there already existed Myspace, which was essentially "the same thing"? You have absolutely no point in your argument whatsoever. And who said we didn't have media connections?
Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 pmWaiting for success to be handed to you is what you'll be doing: not even trying. Look what we're doing here. We're making an effort. We're not trying a failed strategy over and over again, we're doing something we have never done before. Who's to say it won't work? If you try, you could fail, but you could succeed. If you don't try, you will always fail. Isn't a chance of success better than no chance at all?
QuoteAs you can see, even the connections Mack has are just indie things.
Quote from: Macawmoses on May 05, 2011, 05:00:31 pmI should clarify my position before anyone misconstrues it: I have a great deal of respect for Genius and his views. So if anyone wants to take this as a personal affront, don't bother.Genius: How I run a site is dynamic. My role on sites varies with what's required. I've been a hardass. I've been kind and forgiving. I've been active. I've been an advisor. Using that you've seen how I work doesn't quite work. Much like others, who will go unnamed, I can re-imagine myself. And shouldn't a dynamic administrator fit many moulds?And seeing as you brought up SHH's forum (and I just realized this), I should point out its existence is primarily for the staff to communicate on. Hence why it'll be rolled into another forum. So yeah, we're not really going for "community" building there. It is true we have some people from NSFCD on there to help -- it'd be silly if we didn't. But we have numerous others contributing.The Arras thing was simply a jab at the countless others who are uninspired. As for you speaking on the niche, I think you hit the nail on the head. While we cover a bit of everything, we tend to prefer the indie niche. And last I checked, finding success in a niche is still success.But I do take offense to your evaluation of NSFCD. It very much so is a successful community. The fact it relies on a small base is what makes it a community. This is a group of people that gets together more or less because they like one another's company (even if it's to do nothing but ninny). That, to me, constitutes a success. You won't be the judge of that, either. The community will be.
Quote from: Live In Stereo on May 05, 2011, 04:24:17 pmIs there a website out there anymore that doesn't have "500" others that do the same thing or provide the same service?
Quote from: Macawmoses on May 05, 2011, 05:14:01 pmNintendo (of Canada), Appular, Sega, Ubisoft, Activision-Blizzard, EA (Mobile), Sony, Zenimax, Valve, Future US (publication), Microsoft.Those aren't that indie to me. And on the indie front, my contacts include Zero Point Software, Gaijin Games, Renegade Kid, etc.Being a freelance writer tends to help that.
Quote from: Macawmoses on May 05, 2011, 05:27:47 pmWell I've got a ton of indie connections, mostly Canadian. I tend to focus on them for stories. Indies are the ones that tend to provide me exclusive stories or reviews.For instance, http://beefjack.com/features/into-the-vortex-the-story-of-vortex-conference/Hence why I chose to mention them. The other contacts I have are people that know of my name, and I know them. It's the stupid thing where you get games for review and so on and so forth. I get press releases that I don't read.Ahead of the general public? Sometimes not by that much. Keep in mind places like IGN, or, seeing as we're an NSider rip, GoNintendo, just post the releases as soon as they get them. It does allow me to see things before others: I had hands on with the 3DS (after last E3, mind you, but in a private showing). Being realistic, it's nothing amazing. But in terms of all those other sites and the like, it's infinitely more. Those I'm closest with would be the mobile ones (EA, Sega, Appular) because that's what I was writing.However, to throw a point your way...having one writer with contacts doesn't realy mean much.
Quote from: Genius on May 05, 2011, 05:02:47 pmNot particularly, no!Funny, I don't see any change in any of that. It sounds to me like NSFCD will remain the same but on a new server, and they'll just give it a bunch of sister sites on a network.
QuoteI'm not saying anything about Silver and Mack being college students. That's fine. I'm not one of those people who thinks you can only make a successful site if you're older. If anything, college students are the ones with the best chance of getting successful with that stuff. It's the group with the most technical skill in the area, for the most part. However, that doesn't mean that Facebook relates to this situation at all. It was started by a college student, but it's an entirely different thing. Aside from it already being a one in a million kind of situation, there's also that MySpace was the only other known site to offer that kind of social networking at the time, and it was heavily populated by a younger crowd. There was a clear opening for someone to pull the college crowd with a similar concept. That's exactly what happened. It was just filling demand. There is no demand for more gaming sites. There's no unserved crowd there.
QuoteBy offering something the competition doesn't. That's the only way to get ahead. You can't name one thing this site or Shh Mom offers that you can't get anywhere else.
QuoteBy that logic, this place should have been just as successful. They started out about the same time. In fact, I think this one came first. They both aimed to try and fill that void left by Nsider closing. Yet, Nsider2 completely eclipsed NSF. NS2 was no more exact copy than this place at the time. So why was NS2 so much more successful, again?
QuoteYou're missing the point, obviously. You don't care if you have millions of people visiting your sites or not. Don't throw a we out there like you're part of the project. Having a small group of friends for a community might be fine with you, and that's fine if it's all you expect, but that's not success, and it's not good enough for someone who wants to turn communities into an enterprise. When you make that turn, it's about numbers. You can't just be satisfied because you have a small core memberbase. You need to focus on growth.
QuoteExplained above. Before reading this, too, so don't think I had to struggle to explain it. There was a market to appeal to. Simple as that. And it's generally pretty safe to assume that the people behind a project like this don't have media connections. For one, that is something where age means more, since it usually involves some kind of connection to the industry. As you can see, even the connections Mack has are just indie things. But then again, you probably follow that Nsider mindset that "media connections" means "access to Nintendo's press site", so maybe it is fair to assume everyone has it.
QuoteSomething you've never done before? It's hardly different from this site with a different name. Or Shh Mom. Or probably this Area 6 I keep seeing mentions of. Sorry, I don't subscribe to the belief that everything's fine just because you tried. You shouldn't even bother trying if it's hopeless from the beginning. You would be better off saving the effort you could put into a failure and start planning out something that could actually work. Just falling back on something as uninspired as this is the easy way out.
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