Author Topic: You know what they could make that would sell?  (Read 2376 times)

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Offline The Riddler

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You know what they could make that would sell?
« on: March 06, 2012, 01:33:40 PM »
I know it's more complicated than it sounds due to changes between generations, but what if they made a storage device that allowed you to transfer between all generations?

Pop your Red into the device, download your Pokemon, pop in your Black/White, upload your Pokemon.

Guarantee it'd sell. They'd just need to be able to find a way to convert things like: Adding Genders to R/B pokemon, removing moves that are incompatible with other generations, no held items etc.

If they developed a proper conversion system it could work in reverse too.

I feel like the technology can be based on what they did with Pokemon Stadium/Box/etc.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 01:44:42 PM by The Riddler »

Offline Super

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2012, 02:39:32 PM »
Remakes would sell better.

Offline The Riddler

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2012, 03:20:33 PM »
Remakes would sell better.
I want my original Pikachu :(

Offline Neerb

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2012, 05:15:50 PM »
I want my original Pikachu :(

What did it have that you can't get now?

Offline The Riddler

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2012, 05:47:30 PM »
What did it have that you can't get now?
my trainer id and nostalgia.

the point is it'd be nice to be able to take the effort from the older games and bring it up to the newer games (or vice versa) without having to replay the remakes.

i got leafgreen and heartgold, but i'll be honest i didn't have it in me to play them all the way through again

Offline Hero_of_Darkness

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2012, 05:48:10 PM »
Impossible. The Pokemon in Gens I and II are coded completely differently than they are in III-V.

Offline zephilicious

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2012, 06:58:53 PM »
Impossible. The Pokemon in Gens I and II are coded completely differently than they are in III-V.
that is entirely irrelevant

it wont happen because it's pointless not because it's impossible.
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Offline Hero_of_Darkness

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2012, 08:51:22 PM »
that is entirely irrelevant

it wont happen because it's pointless not because it's impossible.
But it is impossible.

Offline The Riddler

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2012, 08:59:44 PM »
But it is impossible.
Quote
They'd just need to be able to find a way to convert things

Offline Kayo

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2012, 09:06:32 PM »
Impossible. The Pokemon in Gens I and II are coded completely differently than they are in III-V.
This. Something to do with all the personality values and such (The personality values, though, allow Pokemon traded from Gen I to Gen II to receive genders).

If you'll notice, nearly every generation can receive Pokemon from one generation below it.
I -> II
III -> IV
IV -> V

The only exception, I and II are separated from III, IV, and V, for the reason Hero mentioned.

The system could not work in reverse, even theoretically.

Basically, stop being lazy and just intercourse ing raise a Pokemon again. The only reason you want your level 100 Charizard from Red that you've been training for 10 years is because you're just too lazy to raise a Pokemon a second time (Even though the newer Gens provide more efficient ways to level up more quickly).

Plus, you couldn't have even put much effort into pokemon in Gen I and II games that couldn't be replicated easily. It's not like you did crazy IV breeding and EV training, because such forms of effort-based training were next-to-impossible back then.

The only thing that could possibly justify wanting to transfer from I and II to III-IV-V would be if you had a shiny Pokemon in gen II, but then again it's really not worth much since shinies were statistically 128 times easier to obtain in Gen II anyway.

Guarantee it'd sell. They'd just need to be able to find a way to convert things like: Adding Genders to R/B pokemon, removing moves that are incompatible with other generations, no held items etc.
If you're so confident, find a way to convert it yourself.

Genders already can be added to R/B Pokemon, and you clearly have no clue what you're talking about if you didn't know that.

Removing moves that are incompatible could leave a Pokemon with an empty moveset, which every game so far has done everything to prevent.
I really hate how I've made more than 12,000 posts here. Thankfully this swaying, moving Chandelure makes it all worth it.

Offline zephilicious

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2012, 09:44:24 PM »
But it is impossible.
oh god i programmed an entire series of video games how do i convert numbers???
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Offline Hero_of_Darkness

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2012, 06:11:56 AM »

They can't do it. The changes to the EV-IV system alone would result in the conversion being a totally differnt Pokemon. The only things you'd keep are moveset and trainer ID.

oh god i programmed an entire series of video games how do i convert numbers???
It's not about converting numbers. The systems just aren't compatible. From the get-go, they'd have to erase all of the stat exp, so you'd end up with much lower stats after the "conversion".

Offline zephilicious

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2012, 01:42:57 PM »
They can't do it. The changes to the EV-IV system alone would result in the conversion being a totally differnt Pokemon. The only things you'd keep are moveset and trainer ID.
It's not about converting numbers. The systems just aren't compatible. From the get-go, they'd have to erase all of the stat exp, so you'd end up with much lower stats after the "conversion".

This is not what impossible means.


You would keep the species, nickname, moveset, and trainer ID (the only things 90% of the audience for this would notice)
If we're pulling from gen ii we can keep gender, hold item, shinyness, and pokerus as well.
IV conversion is straightforward so you can keep those too.
Base stats haven't changed since gen ii, so that carries over.

EVs are the only thing that can't be straight up converted, and thats only because of the lack of a global max (per stat they function almost the same way, just squared).

The simple solution is to scale EVs based on the maximum even distribution possible in gen 3+. It would have a minor impact on the stats of well trained pokemon, but the only players that care would not use this for all kinds of reasons much more significant than EVs.

And on top of that we already have a precedent for stat changes with the special split between gens 1 and 2.
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Offline Hero_of_Darkness

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2012, 05:20:34 PM »
This is not what impossible means.


You would keep the species, nickname, moveset, and trainer ID (the only things 90% of the audience for this would notice)
If we're pulling from gen ii we can keep gender, hold item, shinyness, and pokerus as well.
IV conversion is straightforward so you can keep those too.
Base stats haven't changed since gen ii, so that carries over.

EVs are the only thing that can't be straight up converted, and thats only because of the lack of a global max (per stat they function almost the same way, just squared).

The simple solution is to scale EVs based on the maximum even distribution possible in gen 3+. It would have a minor impact on the stats of well trained pokemon, but the only players that care would not use this for all kinds of reasons much more significant than EVs.

And on top of that we already have a precedent for stat changes with the special split between gens 1 and 2.
First of all, they wouldn't allow hold items to be transferred. Between the items that don't exist in newer games and the cloning glitch, there's just no way it would be allowed.

The IV changes would mean a change in Hidden Power, which means that some people will be forced to change that move for something else if they have it. (Also, I don't even want to think about how they would have to handle Unown conversions...)

Your EV idea is, frankly, stupid. A well trained Pokemon would have every stat maxed. To distribute EVs, each stat for a maxed Pokemon would have to lose 42 stat points. Something tells me that they would notice that their favorite Pokemon's HP is suddenly 42 points lower, and that's when the reality sets in that they just deleted the Pokemon they were attached to in favor of a weakened clone.

And no, EVs aren't the only thing. In Gen II, IVs were used to determine gender and shininess. In later gens, however, they use the personality value. The converter would need to be set up in such a way that the trainer ID, SID, and personality value of each Pokemon don't cause a conflict. A lot of the time, this won't be an issue. However, even if each Pokemon is given its own SID, there's a chance that a shiny Pokemon won't be shiny after tranfer, or a male will become a female, or vice-versa.

Offline zephilicious

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Re: You know what they could make that would sell?
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2012, 06:07:41 PM »
First of all, they wouldn't allow hold items to be transferred. Between the items that don't exist in newer games and the cloning glitch, there's just no way it would be allowed.

The IV changes would mean a change in Hidden Power, which means that some people will be forced to change that move for something else if they have it. (Also, I don't even want to think about how they would have to handle Unown conversions...)

Your EV idea is, frankly, stupid. A well trained Pokemon would have every stat maxed. To distribute EVs, each stat for a maxed Pokemon would have to lose 42 stat points. Something tells me that they would notice that their favorite Pokemon's HP is suddenly 42 points lower, and that's when the reality sets in that they just deleted the Pokemon they were attached to in favor of a weakened clone.

And no, EVs aren't the only thing. In Gen II, IVs were used to determine gender and shininess. In later gens, however, they use the personality value. The converter would need to be set up in such a way that the trainer ID, SID, and personality value of each Pokemon don't cause a conflict. A lot of the time, this won't be an issue. However, even if each Pokemon is given its own SID, there's a chance that a shiny Pokemon won't be shiny after tranfer, or a male will become a female, or vice-versa.

I said simple solution not best. A better compromise would be to take the square root of the EVs, then scale back to 510 if the max is still too high, possibly scaling the weaker stats back more to preserve the best stats. Natures can also be used to adjust the stats to a closer match. Combine that with the fact that the discrepancy scales with level, and most pokemon are not level 100 (aside from rare candy duplication, but those pokemon wont have maxed EVs) and the changes will be unnoticeable to the average player.


Everything else is not a problem as long as we only need to move forwards.
IVs need to be doubled, which leaves room for a rounding error of 1 on each stat. That's enough room to come up with a close, if not exact, hidden power match.

Gen 2 does not have a personality value to preserve, so one can be procedurally generated to preserve everything else. This is always possible.



Of course the simpler option for everybody would be to revamp the pokemon data again in gen vi to accommodate both systems. Perhaps introduce some 'legacy pokemon' concept that allows overcharged EVs. Balance would not be an issue considering all the disadvantages such pokemon would have (no egg moves, dream world abilities, etc.)
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