http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/21/world/americas/un-obama/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
As reported earlier this week, the people of the West Bank region continue to appeal to the United Nations for the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state outside of the control of Israel.
It also seems that the position of the American government on Palestine is beginning to shift. For the past number of decades, the United States maintained a strict pro-Israel policy. Now, as stated by Obama today:
"One year ago, I stood at this podium and called for an independent Palestine. I believed then -- and I believe now -- that the Palestinian people deserve a state of their own. But what I also said is that genuine peace can only be realized between Israelis and Palestinians themselves."
Even the prime minister of Israel appears to be backing down from its own set of conservative ideals, now openly welcoming open talks with West Bank leaders and, eventually, the creation of a separate Palestinian state.
This shift, however, stands as a testament to the current "Arab Spring," with numerous Middle Eastern countries perpetuating revolutionary actions within their countries. It was inevitable that such actions would ultimately influence the individuals residing within the West Bank region.
Personally, I stand in complete support of a separate Palestinian state within the Middle East. Israel, indeed, stands as an occupying government within the region, and this move on behalf of the United Nations to begin talks towards the creation of this state will hopefully reconcile the disastrous 1948 decision for the formation of a Jewish state within Palestine. However, the proposed creation of a Palestinian state poses respectable security risks. The malfeasances of the western world within the Middle East, including the formation of Israel and the consequential takeover of the former Palestinian state, continues to promote the organization of Islamic extremism within the region (it's consequences remain clearly seen). If Palestine indeed becomes a sovereign nation, who's to say this extremism will not maintain an adequate role in the formation of its new government? If this indeed happens, this will propose a simple continuation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Tl;dr: Palestine to become a sovereign nation again. Could be good, but could also promote future terrorism.
What are your thoughts?
I'm completely okay with this.
I would be in favor of this on a few conditions. First, the violence needs to stop. If they get a state, we have a total ceasefire and they finally admit Israel has as much right to exist as their precious Palestinian state does. Second, with all this "Arab Spring" stuff, can we finally end all this anti-antisemitism in the region and such? Finally, Jerusalem needs to be shared. It's just as important to us as it is to you so don't even think you're getting control of that on your own.
The Jews are being silly asking for their own plot of land surrounded entirely my Muslim land. I mean it's fine and all, but they just sit there like they're not expecting a fight. I mean you took the land from Palestine then you're gonna sit there acting like you're totally cool and badass just because you're a Jewish country in the middle of Islam world.
tl;dr Israel should stop whining
Quote from: Kayo on September 21, 2011, 04:41:45 PM
The Jews are being silly asking for their own plot of land surrounded entirely my Muslim land. I mean it's fine and all, but they just sit there like they're not expecting a fight. I mean you took the land from Palestine then you're gonna sit there acting like you're totally cool and badass just because you're a Jewish country in the middle of Islam world.
tl;dr Israel should stop whining
More like we're gonna be attacked and murdered wherever we go because you people and the rest of the world hate us for no good reason. Might as well take a country the SIZE OF THE STATE OF MAINE where our holy land is.
Besides, if they have an issue with Israel, maybe we should kill six million of them and see how they feel after that.
Quote from: Nayrman on September 21, 2011, 06:35:28 PM
More like we're gonna be attacked and murdered wherever we go because you people and the rest of the world hate us for no good reason. Might as well take a country the SIZE OF THE STATE OF MAINE where our holy land is.
Besides, if they have an issue with Israel, maybe we should kill six million of them and see how they feel after that.
You're still alive, aren't you? Get over it. Just because one event happened, it doesn't mean the rest of the world owes the entire Jewish religion anything. We owe you/them nothing at all.
And I thought jews didn't like mass murder. Why would you do it to someone else? That's completely retarded.
News flash: Christianity is the most popular religion in the world, and their country is so small it's WITHIN the city of Rome. So don't pull this SIZE OF THE STATE OF MAINE crap. And who said EVERYONE hated jews? No one's gonna stone you if you live in America.
It's a little more than one event. Brush up on some history. We've been killed and booted out of just about everywhere. It's kind of why we needed a state to begin with.
And the Vatican is just Catholicism, there a lot more Christian states that endorse that religion around the world. The world doesn't owe us anything at this point, but it'd be nice to simply live without the rest of the Arab world trying to wipe us off the map for no good reason.
And apparently you've never been to the south. Do you know how many times my school has more or less excluded the few Jews there were because it's basically a religious state down here? The Fellowship of Christian "Athletes" is a religious organization masquerading under the guise of sports to bring religion into public schools. While I was in the band, it was run by a down south folksy guy and the student leader was more or less a televangelist, who would make us say a prayer whenever before we would begin any big meeting or something. Oh, and I won't forget the time the faculty got mad at US for wanting to change the date for the senior trip, because it fell on Passover, a holy day for us, thus making it so we couldn't go. So, actually, I DO fear getting stoned in America... at least this part of it anyway.
Quote from: Nayrman on September 21, 2011, 06:54:16 PM
It's a little more than one event. Brush up on some history. We've been killed and booted out of just about everywhere. It's kind of why we needed a state to begin with.
And the Vatican is just Catholicism, there a lot more Christian states that endorse that religion around the world. The world doesn't owe us anything at this point, but it'd be nice to simply live without the rest of the Arab world trying to wipe us off the map for no good reason.
And apparently you've never been to the south. Do you know how many times my school has more or less excluded the few Jews there were because it's basically a religious state down here? The Fellowship of Christian "Athletes" is a religious organization masquerading under the guise of sports to bring religion into public schools. While I was in the band, it was run by a down south folksy guy and the student leader was more or less a televangelist, who would make us say a prayer whenever before we would begin any big meeting or something. Oh, and I won't forget the time the faculty got mad at US for wanting to change the date for the senior trip, because it fell on Passover, a holy day for us, thus making it so we couldn't go. So, actually, I DO fear getting stoned in America... at least this part of it anyway.
Oh, wow. Quit whining. And I suppose you expect an extra week off from all classes because of Chanukah? Also, don't all Jewish holidays begin at sunset? I don't see the problem here. Also, and get used to this, Judaism is a MINORITY religion. They're not gonna bend the date of the trip to please three people. What, are you going to ask them to put the trip on Easter? That will upset the 97% of the people there who are Christian.
Face it. Jews will always be a minority and you don't have that kind of pull in the United States because your numbers are so few. You're not getting stoned to death or anything. If you hate it so much, then move someplace else. There are still jewish communities around the US even if it's not a major country religion. Find one if it bothers you.
We can't please everyone. We can't close business and everything to cater to EVERY SINGLE RELIGION. That's why we bend to Christianity, since it's the most commonly practiced religion. Nothing anti-semetic or anything, but in the grand scheme of things it's better to please 95% of the people, the majority religion.
Okay, being a religious minority sucks, I'll agree with you (though I'm not one). But you have to look at the big picture; should they go with pleasing a million Christians or 750 Jews? You might think it's unfair, but it's actually the perfectly logical thing to do.
No, but a little amount of consideration would be nice so all the students can attend, rather than singling out a few because they're different and it's simply more "convenient" for the others. In which case, I demand that school be open on Easter and Christmas, because I want to have more of an education rather than take days off that mean nothing to me. Nextly, Chanukah isn't even a major holiday of ours, you guys just think it is since it falls near Christmas. We can't even get our holy days off down here, yet expect us to revel in their commercialist "holidays" because it's convenient for them? How absurd.
Also, I never said anything about political pull, but I thought the point of America was that we were all equal and treated fairly. Oh, but these days that only matters to christians doesn't it? After all, we're a "Christian State" aren't we? That's what so much of the populace likes to call it anyway.
Move somewhere else? To where exactly? The north is the only semi-feasible option, but even then, America is on a downward spiral overall. It's not like Israel is the best place either, considering any bus ride can explode at any given moment considering so much of the world hates our guts still. It's basically why I'm ok with a Palestinian state so long as the rest of the Arab world finally shuts up about Israel and leaves it alone.
Quote from: Nayrman on September 21, 2011, 08:45:25 PM
No, but a little amount of consideration would be nice so all the students can attend, rather than singling out a few because they're different and it's simply more "convenient" for the others. In which case, I demand that school be open on Easter and Christmas, because I want to have more of an education rather than take days off that mean nothing to me. Nextly, Chanukah isn't even a major holiday of ours, you guys just think it is since it falls near Christmas. We can't even get our holy days off down here, yet expect us to revel in their commercialist "holidays" because it's convenient for them? How absurd.
Also, I never said anything about political pull, but I thought the point of America was that we were all equal and treated fairly. Oh, but these days that only matters to christians doesn't it? After all, we're a "Christian State" aren't we? That's what so much of the populace likes to call it anyway.
Move somewhere else? To where exactly? The north is the only semi-feasible option, but even then, America is on a downward spiral overall. It's not like Israel is the best place either, considering any bus ride can explode at any given moment considering so much of the world hates our guts still. It's basically why I'm ok with a Palestinian state so long as the rest of the Arab world finally shuts up about Israel and leaves it alone.
I lost it at "I demand that school be open on Easter and Christmas"
First of all, Easter is ALWAYS on a SUNDAY. So get that out of your mind.
And why Christmas? That's a big, intercourse ing important holiday. Even if you don't get all religious about it. My family doesn't really, but of course there's the morning where everyone opens presents and stuff and then the extended family, which we only see once or twice a year, comes for dinner. Yeah, why not make us go to school on the most important holiday of the year? It's one out of 365 days dedicated to spending time with your family, which people actually WANT to do. Even Jews get Christmas off; they don't have to celebrate it. Look at it as the ONE DAY in the year where your whole family is pretty much GUARANTEED to have off. That doesn't happen any other time.
Also. Get this through your head: YOU DID NOT HAVE TO GO ON THE TRIP. It's YOUR responsibility to make that choice: whether you want to go on a trip or celebrate your holiday. You're not a kid anymore, you need to make responsible choices. Both have positives and negatives, don't they? Don't complain that you don't get what you want; maybe that was the only day they could organize the trip? These things aren't so easily to move, especially since you're the only person (or one of less than a half dozen) who has a problem with it.
Let's look at your holidays. Passover is several days, isn't it? So is Chanukah. Okay, each single day really isn't important. Our Christmas is ONE FUCKING DAY. JUST ONE.
You can no longer say ANY poop about us being against Jews, because you just flat out went anti-Christian "demanding" that nothing be closed on the one holiday we get. Quit whining, enjoy your two weeks of holidays compared to out two days, and stop acting like you deserve more than everyone else.
Stop whining about getting Christmas off. EVERYONE has if off. Do what a lot of jews are doing now and CELEBRATE IT. Nowhere does it say you have to go around saying "YAYYY JESUS". Even a Christian family like mine doesn't do that. But everyone's off from work. Have a family get-together.
Christmas by now isn't religious. Throw out your "it's only good for christians" thing. In the commercial world, Christmas is not a religious holiday. It's not "The day Jesus was (allegedly) born". It's "A day of rest at the end of year where everyone can go home and spend time with their family, which is easily because everyone has today off". Christians don't get any more than Jews do in this regard; it just so happens that they picked an old-fashioned Christian feast day for their day of rest. Yeah, it stemmed from the religious holiday, but it's NOT THAT WAY ANYMORE.
First off, Passover is not more than one day. Thank you for assuming each individual day (for multiple day holidays, and once again, we have no problem working on Chanukah because it's not all that important, just a time for a few little things.) isn't important, after all, we just have silly holidays that don't mean anything right? It's the night before and the day of, because the Jewish "day" begins at nightfall. Next, about the trip, why should WE have to choose? It's not "the only week that could be done" for scheduling. I group of people shouldn't have to choose between class events and their religious holidays because the school can't bother to plan. And guess what? Times like Passover and such are when MY family get together. Why should I have to miss out on that? We don't get together at all on Christmas because, oh look, WE'RE NOT CHRISTIAN. Is it nice we have the day off? Sure, but doesn't really make up for the fact that we still have to spend our holy days at work or class. Instead, as a religious minority, it's that really annoying period in time where stores try to sell you poop by placing the sticker of a fat, bearded guy on everything, and tv channels have 24 hour marathons of the same god darn movie.
The point I was trying to make of having class on Christmas/Easter and so forth is that you still don't get how we feel about that. Oh, sure, it makes sense to never have work on YOUR important days, but intercourse trying to understand where we're coming from. How DARE we even consider having something happening on Christmas! After all, it's not religious anymore and totally commercial so celebrate it too! (Except you're missing the point that again, we're not Christian so the day has NO meaning to us). Wait, if it's so not religious anymore, why do we have the day off at all? Maybe because of it's religious connotation?
Quote from: Nayrman on September 22, 2011, 03:46:53 AM
First off, Passover is not more than one day. Thank you for assuming each individual day (for multiple day holidays, and once again, we have no problem working on Chanukah because it's not all that important, just a time for a few little things.) isn't important, after all, we just have silly holidays that don't mean anything right? It's the night before and the day of, because the Jewish "day" begins at nightfall. Next, about the trip, why should WE have to choose? It's not "the only week that could be done" for scheduling. I group of people shouldn't have to choose between class events and their religious holidays because the school can't bother to plan. And guess what? Times like Passover and such are when MY family get together. Why should I have to miss out on that? We don't get together at all on Christmas because, oh look, WE'RE NOT CHRISTIAN. Is it nice we have the day off? Sure, but doesn't really make up for the fact that we still have to spend our holy days at work or class. Instead, as a religious minority, it's that really annoying period in time where stores try to sell you poop by placing the sticker of a fat, bearded guy on everything, and tv channels have 24 hour marathons of the same god darn movie.
The point I was trying to make of having class on Christmas/Easter and so forth is that you still don't get how we feel about that. Oh, sure, it makes sense to never have work on YOUR important days, but intercourse trying to understand where we're coming from. How DARE we even consider having something happening on Christmas! After all, it's not religious anymore and totally commercial so celebrate it too! (Except you're missing the point that again, we're not Christian so the day has NO meaning to us). Wait, if it's so not religious anymore, why do we have the day off at all? Maybe because of it's religious connotation?
Christmas is typically a day off because it occurs during Winter Break for most school districts.
HEY KIDS I JUST HAD A REVELATION
Not our problem
It probably won't happen. The U.S will veto it, because they have to PROTECT THEIR LITTLE BABY ISRAEL.
I liked how this thread turned into Kayo vs The Jews.
Quote from: Zero on September 22, 2011, 06:19:04 AM
HEY KIDS I JUST HAD A REVELATION
Not our problem
10/10 reasoning
Quote from: Doodle on September 22, 2011, 07:15:35 AM
It probably won't happen. The U.S will veto it, because they have to PROTECT THEIR LITTLE BABY ISRAEL.
I liked how this thread turned into Kayo vs The Jews.
I believe this will happen. Although the entire conservative base is outraged at this (this will likely become an argument during the upcoming presidential debates), Obama continues to maintain a respectable Pro-Palestinian stance. That's not to say that the United States won't defend Israel if anything terrible happens.
Basically, the United States is going to support the formation of a Palestinian State WHILE defending the interests of Israel.
If Israel doesn't agree to it, yet it gets created, it's not really solving anything.
Quote from: Tupin on September 22, 2011, 02:14:29 PM
If Israel doesn't agree to it, yet it gets created, it's not really solving anything.
The Prime Minister has begun to voice interest in talks with Palestinian leaders, but yes, he is not in support of the formation of a sovereign state.
If I remember correctly, he said that any formation of a sovereign state will result in "severe consequences."
I'm sure these aspects are being taken into consideration during the UN delegations, but it will be interesting to see how such factors will play into any final decision.
Breaking this down.
Quote from: Nayrman on September 22, 2011, 03:46:53 AM
First off, Passover is not more than one day.
"Passover begins on the 15th day of the month of Nisan in the Jewish calendar, which is in spring in the Northern Hemisphere, and is celebrated for seven or eight days. It is one of the most widely observed Jewish holidays." Either you don't know poop about your own "most precious" holiday, or you just celebrate it differently than other Jews. Either way, I'm positive some people actually celebrate it for a week, even if you don't.
QuoteThank you for assuming each individual day (for multiple day holidays, and once again, we have no problem working on Chanukah because it's not all that important, just a time for a few little things.) isn't important, after all, we just have silly holidays that don't mean anything right? It's the night before and the day of, because the Jewish "day" begins at nightfall.
I'm supposed to know? Also if you have no problem working on Chanukah WHY ARE YOU ARGUING
QuoteNext, about the trip, why should WE have to choose? It's not "the only week that could be done" for scheduling. I group of people shouldn't have to choose between class events and their religious holidays because the school can't bother to plan. And guess what? Times like Passover and such are when MY family get together. Why should I have to miss out on that?
Remember, they can't please everyone. Also, you don't KNOW that it wasn't the most convenient time for the trip. Often people have to plan ahead for these things and take any day they can get. Seriously, you can't expect them to consider EVERYTHING. It's one instance and you should just move on.
QuoteWe don't get together at all on Christmas because, oh look, WE'RE NOT CHRISTIAN. Is it nice we have the day off? Sure, but doesn't really make up for the fact that we still have to spend our holy days at work or class. Instead, as a religious minority, it's that really annoying period in time where stores try to sell you poop by placing the sticker of a fat, bearded guy on everything, and tv channels have 24 hour marathons of the same god darn movie.
Let me tell you something. I know A LOT of Jews who celebrate Christmas. They don't celebrate the religious aspect, and I'm not saying you should. I come from a Christian family and we don't celebrate Christmas religiously. You don't need to flip out with your "OH LOOK WE'RE NOT CHRISTIAN" poop. A LOT OF JEWS. HAVE LITTLE PARTIES AND GET TOGETHERS. ON CHRISTMAS. I know Jewish families who even put up Christmas trees and leave presents under them for the kids when they wake up on Dec. 25th.
QuoteThe point I was trying to make of having class on Christmas/Easter and so forth is that you still don't get how we feel about that. Oh, sure, it makes sense to never have work on YOUR important days, but intercourse trying to understand where we're coming from. How DARE we even consider having something happening on Christmas! After all, it's not religious anymore and totally commercial so celebrate it too! (Except you're missing the point that again, we're not Christian so the day has NO meaning to us). Wait, if it's so not religious anymore, why do we have the day off at all? Maybe because of it's religious connotation?
I actually SAID why we have the day off. It originated as a Christian countrywide day of rest but now they leave it there as, LIKE I SAID, ONE day where 99% of all people in the US have the day off, so you're pretty much guaranteed to have your whole family available if you want to do something. And let me ask you something:
How do you think WE feel? You guys still have your Passover and Chanukah, and they're still RELIGIOUS HOLIDAYS. Guess what? CHRISTIANS DON'T HAVE RELIGIOUS HOLIDAYS ANYMORE. Christmas is a commercial 25-day sale at Kohls, symbolized by some strange old man who sneaks into kids' houses and leaves them mysterious gifts.
And Easter is the most sacred holiday for Christians. Yet no one knows that because Easter is a time of year where some demented bunny leaves colorful eggs and candy everywhere for kids to find. Be happy you even HAVE a religious holiday that can be taken seriously, because we don't. So shut up and enjoy the religious holiday you get to have. Jews are lucky enough to not have their religious holidays corrupted by the corporate world, and you claim you guys got it bad. No, you get to celebrate what you were brought up to celebrate, and instead the majority Christians get the short end of the stick.
Nayr, I advise you to just drop the situation, because every post you make just makes you sound more and more like a whiny Jew who cries because you don't get an extra 2 weeks of "Stop everything, we have a holiday" that the majority of the country doesn't even get to have. I'm sorry, but it's true. Just calm down and be thankful that Jews are even allowed in here; in pretty much any middle eastern country you would be prosecuted and killed just because of what you believe in. We're more lenient than a lot of other countries. And you're still a minority.
(http://thediabeticduo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/implied-facepalm.jpg)
Quote from: Zero on September 22, 2011, 06:12:47 PM
(http://thediabeticduo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/implied-facepalm.jpg)
BIG MEMES. In all honesty, what is your opinion on this issue? (Because, after all, this DOES affect us).
Quote from: CoasterKid93 on September 22, 2011, 07:32:57 PM
BIG MEMES. In all honesty, what is your opinion on this issue? (Because, after all, this DOES affect us).
I'm fine with them.
Quote from: CoasterKid93 on September 22, 2011, 07:32:57 PM
BIG MEMES. In all honesty, what is your opinion on this issue? (Because, after all, this DOES affect us).
ninny i ain't give af uck
Quote from: Custom on September 22, 2011, 08:15:33 PM
ninny i ain't give af uck
[spoiler]go suck a male DICK[/spoiler]