NSFCD

Kiosk => News/Updates => Topic started by: Macawmoses on April 03, 2011, 12:23:35 AM

Title: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Macawmoses on April 03, 2011, 12:23:35 AM
Not "we" as in all of you. "We" as in Silver and I. We have had the opportunity to work with one another, but as a check of sorts, making a "business" is the best way to ensure that one doesn't pull a "Snorkel" on the other.

So yes, NSFCD is now part of a business. That business, as it stands, is 10Crow Media (10crow.com). What does that mean for you, the average user of NSFCD? Not a whole lot in particular. Once we finalize the design of the website, you'll be able to read, in detail, what we have planned. Including fancy use of legalese!

For now, though, here's a short list of what to expect...

1. Better Server: You're on it, folks. Because we're increasing the amount of sites on our server, we needed to increase the horsepower of what we have. That means NSFCD comes along for the ride. Enjoy it.

2. Integraton: One key strategy we have toyed with forever is creating a network of sites. We've never had the chops to follow through with that fully. Until now. With SHH MOM taking off, Area 6 set to emerge right away, a friendship with 8th-Circuit, and more sites on the horizon, we're in the position to offer such a network. This will mean access to features for a larger audience including...

-Game servers...TF2, StarCraft, Shoddy/Pokemon Online, Minecraft, etc. all possible. We'll decide on this in the near future.

-Our own chat network (?): haven't decided on this one yet, but we see it as a step towards increasing our own technical proficiency. We'll see where that goes, though.

-More contests: Our expectations are to be the proud owners and/or hosts of 10 sites in the next calendar year. Bigger audience, more contests. These will be spread across the sites.

3. Updated Policy: As it stands, our Terms of Service, Privacy Policy, etc. are a little dated. These will be updated in the coming week. Protip: You can't continue using any of our sites if you don't agree to the terms!

Again, much of this is likely irrelevant to you. You'll see a wonderful little Crow image at the bottom of every page on our sites. You'll see us refer to the sites as a whole as 10Crow Media. And you'll be able to check the status blog here (http://status.10crow.com/).

But to us, this is a big deal. Silver and I have been working together for more than three years now. We have had ups and downs here on NSFCD, but we are a family. While 10Crow is an extension of our work together, it really reflects the growth and change of attitude we've seen on this forum.

We couldn't be doing it without you. And we're extremely grateful for your support -- past, present, and future. Hopefully we'll see you on the other sites, too. For now, though, let me be the first to say:

Welcome to 10Crow Media.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: The Seventh on April 03, 2011, 06:46:28 AM
Ah, that explains Silver's name change.  I like this idea-a whole network of sites, on a powerful server, with checks and balances to keep another "Snorkel" from happening.

Nice job, Mack and Silver!
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: SkyMyl on April 03, 2011, 12:16:14 PM
If people want an explanation of the name:

[spoiler]Network
krowteN
krowten
crowten
tencrow
10Crow[/spoiler]
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Silverhawk79 on April 03, 2011, 02:56:12 PM
Quote from: SkyMyl on April 03, 2011, 12:16:14 PM
If people want an explanation of the name:

[spoiler]Network
krowteN
krowten
crowten
tencrow
10Crow[/spoiler]
It's ingeniously simple.
Plus, crows are pretty kickass.
Oh and by the way, we're using our old server for one or two (low-resource intensive) games. Starcraft likely, but what other(s)?
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: DededeCloneChris on April 03, 2011, 06:08:55 PM
Funny, I thought a company turned Silver into their property with the username change.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Kayo on April 03, 2011, 06:28:41 PM
Wow, that's bigger than I expected!

Excellent job, you too. I just... can't believe it *sniff*

Out little NSF is growing up.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: on April 03, 2011, 09:09:46 PM
Will you go public? Will we get free shares? And good luck to you guys on your endeavors.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: The Seventh on April 04, 2011, 07:36:29 AM
Quote from: SkyMyl on April 03, 2011, 12:16:14 PM
If people want an explanation of the name:

[spoiler]Network
krowteN
krowten
crowten
tencrow
10Crow[/spoiler]
That is ingeniously simple.

Also as for the other game TF2.  DO IT.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Silverhawk79 on April 04, 2011, 11:41:51 AM
Quote from: Alisaihin on April 04, 2011, 07:36:29 AM
That is ingeniously simple.

Also as for the other game TF2.  DO IT.
Our old server can't even begin to run TF2, unless you want a server that can hold maybe 8 people.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: The Seventh on April 04, 2011, 03:21:56 PM
Quote from: Silvercrow79 on April 04, 2011, 11:41:51 AM
Our old server can't even begin to run TF2, unless you want a server that can hold maybe 8 people.
Oh...I see.  That's...not good.

*begins to think again*
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Silverhawk79 on April 05, 2011, 09:22:45 AM
Quote from: Alisaihin on April 04, 2011, 03:21:56 PM
Oh...I see.  That's...not good.

*begins to think again*
Some stats:
20GB space
512MB RAM (wimpy wimpy wimpy!)
Unlimited bandwidth
1000MHz worth of processing power

New server stats:
40GB space
1024MB RAM
4000MHz worth of processing power
800GB bandwidth

Doesn't look like Minecraft will be possible on the old server. :(
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: The Seventh on April 05, 2011, 03:08:06 PM
Quote from: Silvercrow79 on April 05, 2011, 09:22:45 AM
Some stats:
20GB space
512MB RAM (wimpy wimpy wimpy!)
Unlimited bandwidth
1000MHz worth of processing power

New server stats:
40GB space
1024MB RAM
4000MHz worth of processing power
800GB bandwidth

Doesn't look like Minecraft will be possible on the old server. :(
...only 512 MB ram?  The unlimited bandwidth is nice, and the processing power isn't terribad...

That RAM though...could prove very limiting.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Silverhawk79 on April 05, 2011, 04:59:17 PM
Quote from: Alisaihin on April 05, 2011, 03:08:06 PM
...only 512 MB ram?  The unlimited bandwidth is nice, and the processing power isn't terribad...

That RAM though...could prove very limiting.
Yeah. Shoddy Battle server?
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: The Riddler on April 05, 2011, 05:55:48 PM
Quote from: Silvercrow79 on April 05, 2011, 04:59:17 PM
Yeah. Shoddy Battle server?
>Shoddy Battle

ololol like anyone uses that anymore. Get with the times.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Silverhawk79 on April 05, 2011, 06:36:10 PM
Quote from: Cecil Harvey on April 05, 2011, 05:55:48 PM
>Shoddy Battle

ololol like anyone uses that anymore. Get with the times.
I don't know what else to use it for. :(
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Kayo on April 05, 2011, 06:58:13 PM
Quote from: Cecil Harvey on April 05, 2011, 05:55:48 PM
>Shoddy Battle

ololol like anyone uses that anymore. Get with the times.
Ahahahaha, last time I used that, Gen IV was the brand-new thing.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Spud on April 07, 2011, 02:09:17 AM
What about Pokemon Online? Can't be that intensive.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Silverhawk79 on April 07, 2011, 09:27:45 AM
Quote from: Chocobo Knight on April 07, 2011, 02:09:17 AM
What about Pokemon Online? Can't be that intensive.
It looks like it's not really compatible with CentOS, which is what our server runs.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Silverhawk79 on April 07, 2011, 11:59:56 AM
Remember the ill-fated NSFCD radio? We could attempt to bring that back...
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: buttlord420 on April 09, 2011, 08:32:34 AM
Quote from: Silvercrow79 on April 07, 2011, 11:59:56 AM
Remember the ill-fated NSFCD radio? We could attempt to bring that back...
Now if only you could find people to listen to it.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: FruitFlow on April 09, 2011, 01:39:58 PM
The old server passed away.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Genius on May 04, 2011, 05:43:52 PM
...Seriously, now?

I know I'm a little late on this, but c'mon, seriously?
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Silverhawk79 on May 04, 2011, 11:11:59 PM
Quote from: Genius on May 04, 2011, 05:43:52 PM
...Seriously, now?

I know I'm a little late on this, but c'mon, seriously?
Something wrong with it?
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Genius on May 05, 2011, 08:04:21 AM
Quote from: Silverhawk79 on May 04, 2011, 11:11:59 PM
Something wrong with it?

Quote from: Macawmoses on April 03, 2011, 12:23:35 AM
So yes, NSFCD is now part of a business.

Quote from: Macawmoses on April 03, 2011, 12:23:35 AM
2. Integraton: One key strategy we have toyed with forever is creating a network of sites.

Quote from: Macawmoses on April 03, 2011, 12:23:35 AM
SHH MOM taking off

Quote from: Macawmoses on April 03, 2011, 12:23:35 AM
we're in the position to offer such a network.

Quote from: Macawmoses on April 03, 2011, 12:23:35 AM
-Our own chat network (?): haven't decided on this one yet, but we see it as a step towards increasing our own technical proficiency.

Quote from: Macawmoses on April 03, 2011, 12:23:35 AM
growth

Yeah, I think that about covers it.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Silverhawk79 on May 05, 2011, 10:03:57 AM
This isn't an immediate process.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Genius on May 05, 2011, 11:15:51 AM
Quote from: Silverhawk79 on May 05, 2011, 10:03:57 AM
This isn't an immediate process.

Doesn't matter.  It still reeks of inexperience and that classic post-Nsider "let's make a forum and pretend it's successful because it has a handful of active members" mindset.  Just on a larger scale.

Seeing that Shh Mom site and your apparent belief that it has some level of success kind of says enough right there.  It's nothing more than "just another gaming site" that has absolutely nothing to offer that you can't get at a hundred others.  The obligatory forum likely doesn't have more than a member or two that didn't come from here (which is another staple of that earlier mindset; a bunch of forums having the same memberbase and yet somehow believing that they all have the same level of success), and contrary to what you probably believe, the writing has zero personality.  Not to mention how obvious it is that you guys are struggling to find anything to write about at all.

The reason I specifically pointed out the word growth as something wrong with the post earlier is because I see absolutely no growth here whatsoever.  I don't see any change in the way you guys are thinking now from how you did when this site was created.  It's the same thing on a larger scale.  It doesn't matter how big you try and make it; a flawed concept is gonna fail no matter how you try and pull it off.  Look at this place for example.  This community is not self-sustaining.  Never has been.  It's reliant on an existing group of members, and without that, it has nothing at all.  The same goes for basically every other abomination spawned by wannabe web developers after Nsider died.

You know which one got the closest?  Nsider 2.  Do you know why?  As surprising as this may seem to you, EJRaven was the reason for the small degree of success the place had for a while.  EJ was a moron, no doubt about that.  However, there is one thing you need to understand when it comes to making sites like these.  If you're trying to make a successful site when there's already a sea of similar sites out there, your only hope for achieving that success is by trading away your dignity.  A large sum of money might do the trick too, but that's cheating.  EJ was good at what he did because he didn't give a crap about dignity.  He was a simple businessman who would sell himself out for whatever might make him more money.  He never cared about being a respected site administrator.  Sadly, that's exactly what you need if you want to turn web communities into a business.  You have to be knowledgeable on what dignity-crushing methods will bring people to your site, and you have to be focused enough on the idea of a website as a simple tool to be able to pull those off.

All I see here is a couple kids repeating the exact same thing I've seen a thousand times over since Nsider closed.  Nsider truly was a curse.  I don't know what they did to drill this way of thinking so deeply into so many heads, but it's truly amazing to know that some people haven't learned after this long.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: on May 05, 2011, 12:33:51 PM
Dang, you sound betrayed or something.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Friendly Hostile on May 05, 2011, 01:11:56 PM
Genius just hates the fact that the rest of the world isn't as cynical as he is.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 01:17:24 PM
I'm sure every single person here knows we're just an insignificantly tiny group of people left older from NSider. Everyone already knows what's so "ordinary" about NSFCD. That's why the staff seems to be trying their hardest to change that. What you said was true, Genius, but you're not seeing the big picture here.

No one's able to tell whether this mission will end in success or not, but at least we're trying. Every network has to start somewhere. If ours is a few small gaming sites, so be it. We're doing it on our own, and we're doing just fine. Why was Nsider2 successful? It was a carbon copy of the original NSider. We realize we're different than them. We're a much smaller but much more unique group of people. We can start from our small userbase and build up. What we really need to do is branch out and make ourselves KNOWN. Obviously not too many outsiders will visit all the sites on our network if we only advertise them.... within the network. That's precisely why we end up with the same few users on all of them, for the most part. There are more people exclusive to only one or two sites here, but yeah, a lot of members just go to all of them.

That's where the problem lies... everything is domestic. Once the staff decides to make our insignificant corner of the internet noticeable, it will blossom into a successful network. That won't happen immediately. It won't happen in a week, nor a month, nor even an entire year. You can't go through life expecting success to be handed to you; you have to take baby steps at first until you're comfortable with leaps of faith. These are our baby steps. If we end up without any negative side effects from this advance (we haven't yet) then we will be ready to move forward at a faster rate.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Genius on May 05, 2011, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: Friendly Hostile on May 05, 2011, 01:11:56 PM
Genius just hates the fact that the rest of the world isn't as cynical as he is.

No, no.  I'm not cynical.  I'm cynical and right.  There's a difference.

Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 01:17:24 PM
Everyone already knows what's so "ordinary" about NSFCD. That's why the staff seems to be trying their hardest to change that.

What exactly are they doing to change that at all?

Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 01:17:24 PM
No one's able to tell whether this mission will end in success or not

Sure, in the same way you could say that nobody can say for sure that you'll die from jumping off a plane without a parachute.

Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 01:17:24 PM
Every network has to start somewhere. If ours is a few small gaming sites, so be it.

You seem to have missed the part where small gaming sites aren't gonna start a thing, since there are fifty thousand others out there that people already don't care about. 

Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 01:17:24 PM
Why was Nsider2 successful? It was a carbon copy of the original NSider.

Wrong.  As I stated, Nsider2 was "successful" (I use the term loosely) because it was run by someone who treats websites as a business venture.

Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 01:17:24 PM
We're a much smaller but much more unique group of people. We can start from our small userbase and build up.

Because that's certainly gone so well up until now.  Brought in all kinds of new people, right?  Just tell them how unique you guys are.  That's sure to bring them flooding in.

Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 01:17:24 PM
What we really need to do is branch out and make ourselves KNOWN. Obviously not too many outsiders will visit all the sites on our network if we only advertise them.... within the network. That's precisely why we end up with the same few users on all of them, for the most part. There are more people exclusive to only one or two sites here, but yeah, a lot of members just go to all of them.

You don't seem to understand.  Everyone in the world could know about this site.  Doesn't mean that they give a crap about it.  Do you honestly believe that just being known is good enough?  You missed my entire point.  Someone might visit the site, but what's really there to make them come back again?  Let's use that Shh Mom site as an example.  I wouldn't mind seeing a count of the number of unique visitors for the past few months.  It's likely low, but I'd imagine that even the people that did stumble upon it somehow probably just saw some subpar gaming blog and never gave it another look.  As for this site....well, I think it goes without saying that nobody's gonna see the place and sign up just because they thought it looked cool. 

Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 01:17:24 PM
That's where the problem lies... everything is domestic. Once the staff decides to make our insignificant corner of the internet noticeable, it will blossom into a successful network.

So insignificant things suddenly become significant once somebody notices them?  Sorry, your insignificant little corner of the internet doesn't mean a thing to anyone, whether they see it or not.  There's absolutely nothing that's gonna pull people in.  Contrary to what you may believe, people won't magically believe that your site is better than the thousands of other sites for the same thing.  If you can't offer something that the competition can't, don't even.  All those "small gaming sites" you see as a start to this glorious network are worthless if they can't offer users something they can't get elsewhere.  And sorry, your "unique" community doesn't cut it.  If you want a site like that to be successful, you'd better at least have media connections, or else all you're doing is just parroting back what you heard on bigger, more important gaming sites.

Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 01:17:24 PM
That won't happen immediately. It won't happen in a week, nor a month, nor even an entire year. You can't go through life expecting success to be handed to you; you have to take baby steps at first until you're comfortable with leaps of faith. These are our baby steps. If we end up without any negative side effects from this advance (we haven't yet) then we will be ready to move forward at a faster rate.

So you think that if you try a failed strategy for long enough, it'll eventually be successful?  Well, feel free to waste away your life trying the same thing until it eventually works.  That sure sounds like waiting for success to be handed to you to me. 
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Macawmoses on May 05, 2011, 02:56:58 PM
Your argument seems to centre on the success of NSFCD.

Yet you haven't looked elsewhere where we've made it clear NSFCD is not a core part of this. It's there. And it's being dragged along for the ride. We like NSFCD enough that we'll keep funding it. We'll keep offering things to the users.

But the fact we've not commercialized it now, nor do we have intents on doing so in the future. If your evaluation is based on NSFCD -- a successful community but not enterprise -- then you are extremely off.

Never have we claimed otherwise.

Let me reiterate: NSFCD is just along for the ride.

As for other sites being built, last I checked we have media connections and more -- some of which some websites have yet to foster. We're getting world firsts and exclusives. Yes, they're on an indie level, but they're unique.

We've built a base of contacts. Actually, no, we haven't. I have. If SHH (et al.) were just like every other site, we'd be using the Arras Wordpress theme. Let me know the next time your websites are on the same mailing list as Rock Paper Shotgun, Destructoid, or what have you.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Friendly Hostile on May 05, 2011, 03:14:46 PM
But Genius, do you honestly think they're going to drop everything because you poo poo the idea?  You've done this on every little spinoff you show up on.  You're a cynical bastard.  You only ever to show up to proclaim doom and gloom.

Let them try and do something, and if it fails, it fails.  Are you hoping that you get to say I told you so when it does?
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 PM
Quote from: Genius on May 05, 2011, 01:52:44 PM
No, no.  I'm not cynical.  I'm cynical and right.  There's a difference.
There's also a difference between that and being cynical and wrong, and I'm sure you're familiar with this.

QuoteWhat exactly are they doing to change that at all?
I simply refer you to the above. Rather, the entire discussion of this thread (as it was originally).  Go back and read what's going on, then we'll talk.

QuoteSure, in the same way you could say that nobody can say for sure that you'll die from jumping off a plane without a parachute.
Please tell me the origin of Facebook. Successful now, isn't it? Very. Did it start successful? It was started by college students. Hey wait, aren't Silver and Mack both college students? I'm not saying NSFCD will be as successful as Facebook, but neither of them started in high areas. Your argument doesn't mean poop since several websites disproved it. And some such websites have failed, as well. I said we don't know. And we don't, but you'll never know until you try. At least we're trying.

QuoteYou seem to have missed the part where small gaming sites aren't gonna start a thing, since there are fifty thousand others out there that people already don't care about. 
How do you think they all got there?

QuoteWrong.  As I stated, Nsider2 was "successful" (I use the term loosely) because it was run by someone who treats websites as a business venture.
But I'm not wrong.. it was created as an exact copy of NSider, and thus attracted the majority of NSiders, and continues to do so today.

QuoteBecause that's certainly gone so well up until now.  Brought in all kinds of new people, right?  Just tell them how unique you guys are.  That's sure to bring them flooding in.

You don't seem to understand.  Everyone in the world could know about this site.  Doesn't mean that they give a crap about it.  Do you honestly believe that just being known is good enough?  You missed my entire point.  Someone might visit the site, but what's really there to make them come back again?  Let's use that Shh Mom site as an example.  I wouldn't mind seeing a count of the number of unique visitors for the past few months.  It's likely low, but I'd imagine that even the people that did stumble upon it somehow probably just saw some subpar gaming blog and never gave it another look.  As for this site....well, I think it goes without saying that nobody's gonna see the place and sign up just because they thought it looked cool. 
You missed my entire point. We don't care if we have millions of people visiting our sites or not. We care that the people that DO all share common interests, which is the goal of a community. That's what NSFCD is, a community. I'm saying, the same people that visit NSFCD visit all its affiliated sites. I was practically agreeing with you, and you didn't even notice. Priceless.

QuoteSo insignificant things suddenly become significant once somebody notices them?  Sorry, your insignificant little corner of the internet doesn't mean a thing to anyone, whether they see it or not.  There's absolutely nothing that's gonna pull people in.  Contrary to what you may believe, people won't magically believe that your site is better than the thousands of other sites for the same thing.  If you can't offer something that the competition can't, don't even.  All those "small gaming sites" you see as a start to this glorious network are worthless if they can't offer users something they can't get elsewhere.  And sorry, your "unique" community doesn't cut it.  If you want a site like that to be successful, you'd better at least have media connections, or else all you're doing is just parroting back what you heard on bigger, more important gaming sites.
Oh okay, just use the same exact argument over and over again and people will believe in it, right? Wrong. But if you insist playing at that level, I'm happy to settle. Just look back at Facebook again. How on earth could a social networking site get to be so successful when there already existed Myspace, which was essentially "the same thing"? You have absolutely no point in your argument whatsoever. And who said we didn't have media connections?

QuoteSo you think that if you try a failed strategy for long enough, it'll eventually be successful?  Well, feel free to waste away your life trying the same thing until it eventually works.  That sure sounds like waiting for success to be handed to you to me. 
Waiting for success to be handed to you is what you'll be doing: not even trying. Look what we're doing here. We're making an effort. We're not trying a failed strategy over and over again, we're doing something we have never done before. Who's to say it won't work? If you try, you could fail, but you could succeed. If you don't try, you will always fail. Isn't a chance of success better than no chance at all?
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Genius on May 05, 2011, 04:12:28 PM
Quote from: Macawmoses on May 05, 2011, 02:56:58 PM
Your argument seems to centre on the success of NSFCD.

Not at all.  And if it were gonna be that, it would be the lack of NSFCD's success.  As a community or enterprise.  Though part of my point does show right there.  If you think this is even a successful community, you clearly don't know what really constitutes success.  A community that completely relies on a small handful of members to stay alive can never be called successful.

If anything, the mention of you saying that Shh Mom is taking off holds more weight in my argument.  In the same way, though.  You'd have to have incredibly low standards for success.  I'm aware that NSFCD is just along for the ride in this situation, but it's also been a clear indication of how you run a site, and I really don't see that changing because you're running different sites.  I don't care if NSFCD wasn't part of the picture at all.  It'll still go the same way.  You can make a hundred different sites.  Every one will still end up with the same userbase of this one, and nobody else will care about them.

Quote from: Macawmoses on May 05, 2011, 02:56:58 PM
As for other sites being built, last I checked we have media connections and more -- some of which some websites have yet to foster. We're getting world firsts and exclusives. Yes, they're on an indie level, but they're unique.

We've built a base of contacts. Actually, no, we haven't. I have. If SHH (et al.) were just like every other site, we'd be using the Arras Wordpress theme. Let me know the next time your websites are on the same mailing list as Rock Paper Shotgun, Destructoid, or what have you.

I'd love to know what you have in mind.  World first and exclusives on an indie level don't mean much of anything to a general gaming site.  That might get you far in the indie niche, but that's about it.  And I don't know what world first or exclusives you could really even get.  If you really do have a good base of contacts, then good for you.  I'd be genuinely surprised at it.  And I'm not sure that saying that your site is set apart by not using the Arras Wordpress theme is really helping your cause that much.  Not using a generic theme is good and all, but it doesn't mean that much.

Quote from: Friendly Hostile on May 05, 2011, 03:14:46 PM
But Genius, do you honestly think they're going to drop everything because you poo poo the idea?  You've done this on every little spinoff you show up on.  You're a cynical bastard.  You only ever to show up to proclaim doom and gloom.

Let them try and do something, and if it fails, it fails.  Are you hoping that you get to say I told you so when it does?

By my count, I've been right every time.  I think it's only fair that I point out a failure of an idea after seeing it five hundred times before.  It's not my fault that the people behind every single one of these spinoffs has the same mindset.  Least I can do is try and break them of a bad habit.  Believe it or not, I'm not even terribly cynical.  ...Okay, well, mostly, but not on this subject.  I'm perfectly happy to encourage someone trying to start a website when it's not this same exact thing I've seen five hundred times.  However, given that I have, and knowing that it's a miserable failure every time, kind of makes me a little hesitant to support it.  So yes, of course I'm going to proclaim doom and gloom when I've basically been in a time loop of the same thing for the past four years.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Zovistograt on May 05, 2011, 04:20:16 PM
I think Genius is doing a good job of explaining what's going on, so I'll just add that I can't see Genius being proved wrong until 10Crow does something truly unique.  Doing stuff other people already do is silly at this point.  If you're going to grow, grow into innovation.  Some people make games here.  Why not center around those and build a more successful community around that?

Also, yes, I concede that arguing about whether it's silly to even attempt it or not is kind of weak as an ultimatum, but I think what Genius is trying to do is to make you realize that you need a small bit of cynicism pecking at you in order for you to understand the whole picture better and think of things on a macro scale instead of just a local scale.  The Internet is run by cynicism now, and if you try to blindly hop ahead, you'll hop into a large gaping hole of it.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: on May 05, 2011, 04:24:17 PM
Is there a website out there anymore that doesn't have "500" others that do the same thing or provide the same service?
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Macawmoses on May 05, 2011, 05:00:31 PM
I should clarify my position before anyone misconstrues it: I have a great deal of respect for Genius and his views. So if anyone wants to take this as a personal affront, don't bother.

Genius: How I run a site is dynamic. My role on sites varies with what's required. I've been a hardass. I've been kind and forgiving. I've been active. I've been an advisor. Using that you've seen how I work doesn't quite work. Much like others, who will go unnamed, I can re-imagine myself. And shouldn't a dynamic administrator fit many moulds?

And seeing as you brought up SHH's forum (and I just realized this), I should point out its existence is primarily for the staff to communicate on. Hence why it'll be rolled into another forum. So yeah, we're not really going for "community" building there. It is true we have some people from NSFCD on there to help -- it'd be silly if we didn't. But we have numerous others contributing.

The Arras thing was simply a jab at the countless others who are uninspired. As for you speaking on the niche, I think you hit the nail on the head. While we cover a bit of everything, we tend to prefer the indie niche. And last I checked, finding success in a niche is still success.

But I do take offense to your evaluation of NSFCD. It very much so is a successful community. The fact it relies on a small base is what makes it a community. This is a group of people that gets together more or less because they like one another's company (even if it's to do nothing but ninny). That, to me, constitutes a success. You won't be the judge of that, either. The community will be.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Genius on May 05, 2011, 05:02:47 PM
Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 PM
There's also a difference between that and being cynical and wrong, and I'm sure you're familiar with this.

Not particularly, no!

Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 PM
I simply refer you to the above. Rather, the entire discussion of this thread (as it was originally).  Go back and read what's going on, then we'll talk.

Funny, I don't see any change in any of that.  It sounds to me like NSFCD will remain the same but on a new server, and they'll just give it a bunch of sister sites on a network.

Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 PM
Please tell me the origin of Facebook. Successful now, isn't it? Very. Did it start successful? It was started by college students. Hey wait, aren't Silver and Mack both college students? I'm not saying NSFCD will be as successful as Facebook, but neither of them started in high areas. Your argument doesn't mean poop since several websites disproved it. And some such websites have failed, as well. I said we don't know. And we don't, but you'll never know until you try. At least we're trying.

I'm not saying anything about Silver and Mack being college students.  That's fine.  I'm not one of those people who thinks you can only make a successful site if you're older.  If anything, college students are the ones with the best chance of getting successful with that stuff.  It's the group with the most technical skill in the area, for the most part.  However, that doesn't mean that Facebook relates to this situation at all.  It was started by a college student, but it's an entirely different thing.  Aside from it already being a one in a million kind of situation, there's also that MySpace was the only other known site to offer that kind of social networking at the time, and it was heavily populated by a younger crowd.  There was a clear opening for someone to pull the college crowd with a similar concept.  That's exactly what happened.  It was just filling demand.  There is no demand for more gaming sites.  There's no unserved crowd there.

Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 PM
How do you think they all got there?

By offering something the competition doesn't.  That's the only way to get ahead.  You can't name one thing this site or Shh Mom offers that you can't get anywhere else.

Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 PM
But I'm not wrong.. it was created as an exact copy of NSider, and thus attracted the majority of NSiders, and continues to do so today.

By that logic, this place should have been just as successful.  They started out about the same time.  In fact, I think this one came first.  They both aimed to try and fill that void left by Nsider closing.  Yet, Nsider2 completely eclipsed NSF.  NS2 was no more exact copy than this place at the time.  So why was NS2 so much more successful, again?

Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 PM
You missed my entire point. We don't care if we have millions of people visiting our sites or not. We care that the people that DO all share common interests, which is the goal of a community. That's what NSFCD is, a community. I'm saying, the same people that visit NSFCD visit all its affiliated sites. I was practically agreeing with you, and you didn't even notice. Priceless.

You're missing the point, obviously.  You don't care if you have millions of people visiting your sites or not.  Don't throw a we out there like you're part of the project.  Having a small group of friends for a community might be fine with you, and that's fine if it's all you expect, but that's not success, and it's not good enough for someone who wants to turn communities into an enterprise.  When you make that turn, it's about numbers.  You can't just be satisfied because you have a small core memberbase.  You need to focus on growth.

Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 PM
Oh okay, just use the same exact argument over and over again and people will believe in it, right? Wrong. But if you insist playing at that level, I'm happy to settle. Just look back at Facebook again. How on earth could a social networking site get to be so successful when there already existed Myspace, which was essentially "the same thing"? You have absolutely no point in your argument whatsoever. And who said we didn't have media connections?

Explained above.  Before reading this, too, so don't think I had to struggle to explain it.  There was a market to appeal to.  Simple as that.  And it's generally pretty safe to assume that the people behind a project like this don't have media connections.  For one, that is something where age means more, since it usually involves some kind of connection to the industry.  As you can see, even the connections Mack has are just indie things.  But then again, you probably follow that Nsider mindset that "media connections" means "access to Nintendo's press site", so maybe it is fair to assume everyone has it.

Quote from: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 03:35:47 PM
Waiting for success to be handed to you is what you'll be doing: not even trying. Look what we're doing here. We're making an effort. We're not trying a failed strategy over and over again, we're doing something we have never done before. Who's to say it won't work? If you try, you could fail, but you could succeed. If you don't try, you will always fail. Isn't a chance of success better than no chance at all?

Something you've never done before?  It's hardly different from this site with a different name.  Or Shh Mom.  Or probably this Area 6 I keep seeing mentions of.  Sorry, I don't subscribe to the belief that everything's fine just because you tried.  You shouldn't even bother trying if it's hopeless from the beginning.  You would be better off saving the effort you could put into a failure and start planning out something that could actually work.  Just falling back on something as uninspired as this is the easy way out.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Macawmoses on May 05, 2011, 05:14:01 PM
QuoteAs you can see, even the connections Mack has are just indie things. 

Nintendo (of Canada), Appular, Sega, Ubisoft, Activision-Blizzard, EA (Mobile), Sony, Zenimax, Valve, Future US (publication), Microsoft.

Those aren't that indie to me. And on the indie front, my contacts include Zero Point Software, Gaijin Games, Renegade Kid, etc.

Being a freelance writer tends to help that.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Genius on May 05, 2011, 05:19:40 PM
Quote from: Macawmoses on May 05, 2011, 05:00:31 PM
I should clarify my position before anyone misconstrues it: I have a great deal of respect for Genius and his views. So if anyone wants to take this as a personal affront, don't bother.

Genius: How I run a site is dynamic. My role on sites varies with what's required. I've been a hardass. I've been kind and forgiving. I've been active. I've been an advisor. Using that you've seen how I work doesn't quite work. Much like others, who will go unnamed, I can re-imagine myself. And shouldn't a dynamic administrator fit many moulds?

And seeing as you brought up SHH's forum (and I just realized this), I should point out its existence is primarily for the staff to communicate on. Hence why it'll be rolled into another forum. So yeah, we're not really going for "community" building there. It is true we have some people from NSFCD on there to help -- it'd be silly if we didn't. But we have numerous others contributing.

The Arras thing was simply a jab at the countless others who are uninspired. As for you speaking on the niche, I think you hit the nail on the head. While we cover a bit of everything, we tend to prefer the indie niche. And last I checked, finding success in a niche is still success.

But I do take offense to your evaluation of NSFCD. It very much so is a successful community. The fact it relies on a small base is what makes it a community. This is a group of people that gets together more or less because they like one another's company (even if it's to do nothing but ninny). That, to me, constitutes a success. You won't be the judge of that, either. The community will be.

You've worked on a lot of different sites in a lot of different roles, but it all comes back to the kind of mindset I mentioned in the beginning.  I've never really seen you manage to break away from that.  Which is probably related to the fact that you mostly seem to work on these same spinoff kind of sites.  It's all the same.  You might have to act accordingly for the role, but all that changes is your position in the forum.  The forum is the same.  Have you ever been involved closely in a site that doesn't just boil down to a group of friends?  People just seem to see nothing but that and get the idea that there's nothing more to communities than that. 

I'd assumed that SHH's forum wasn't something intended to be a proper community.  But that still does make me want to ask for a unique visitor count for a better idea of how it's doing.  I'm trying not to judge on comments because that's not a particularly good way to gauge activity either.  And it's really not silly to not have NSFCD members there.  Then it just becomes the same site on a new domain.  Carrying over an established community to a site is not worth the trouble it'll cause.  That just walls the place off and keeps out potential new members who don't want to jump into an established community.

I do know what you mean by that.  I really never thought about how common it is, but...yeah, that's about right.  And yes, even catering to a niche is success if it brings people interested in that niche subject in.  However, looking at the site, I'd never think that it's targeted towards the indie niche.  I just see people writing articles because they know they need to, and writing on whatever happens to come to mind that they can pull off an article about.  Either that, or news that's posted everywhere.  If that niche is the way you want to go, put everything towards that.  Don't stretch yourself thin and make it a site without a clear focus.

Like I said, if that's what you want in a community, it's perfectly fine.  I wouldn't claim that this site isn't good enough, or there something wrong with it as it is.  As long as it's accepted for the small group of friends it is.  That's what every Nsider spinoff boils down to in the end.  It only becomes a problem when you expect more from it than that.  I don't think you expect more from it than that, but I do get the feeling you expect more from the same formula minus the Nsider name.

Quote from: Live In Stereo on May 05, 2011, 04:24:17 PM
Is there a website out there anymore that doesn't have "500" others that do the same thing or provide the same service?

Not many, but that's why you need to stop and think about that doesn't offer the same service.  The internet is too saturated now.  You won't get somewhere without innovation.  Or money, but yeah, cheating.

Quote from: Macawmoses on May 05, 2011, 05:14:01 PM
Nintendo (of Canada), Appular, Sega, Ubisoft, Activision-Blizzard, EA (Mobile), Sony, Zenimax, Valve, Future US (publication), Microsoft.

Those aren't that indie to me. And on the indie front, my contacts include Zero Point Software, Gaijin Games, Renegade Kid, etc.

Being a freelance writer tends to help that.

That's...not particularly indie.  Impressive, even.  Just how did you manage that?  I didn't expect freelance writing to pay off so well.  And how close are these connections?  Would you ever get word of something before the general public?
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Macawmoses on May 05, 2011, 05:27:47 PM
Well I've got a ton of indie connections, mostly Canadian. I tend to focus on them for stories. Indies are the ones that tend to provide me exclusive stories or reviews.

For instance, http://beefjack.com/features/into-the-vortex-the-story-of-vortex-conference/

Hence why I chose to mention them. The other contacts I have are people that know of my name, and I know them. It's the stupid thing where you get games for review and so on and so forth. I get press releases that I don't read.

Ahead of the general public? Sometimes not by that much. Keep in mind places like IGN, or, seeing as we're an NSider rip, GoNintendo, just post the releases as soon as they get them. It does allow me to see things before others: I had hands on with the 3DS (after last E3, mind you, but in a private showing).

Being realistic, it's nothing amazing. But in terms of all those other sites and the like, it's infinitely more. Those I'm closest with would be the mobile ones (EA, Sega, Appular) because that's what I was writing.

However, to throw a point your way...having one writer with contacts doesn't realy mean much.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Genius on May 05, 2011, 05:52:08 PM
Quote from: Macawmoses on May 05, 2011, 05:27:47 PM
Well I've got a ton of indie connections, mostly Canadian. I tend to focus on them for stories. Indies are the ones that tend to provide me exclusive stories or reviews.

For instance, http://beefjack.com/features/into-the-vortex-the-story-of-vortex-conference/

Hence why I chose to mention them. The other contacts I have are people that know of my name, and I know them. It's the stupid thing where you get games for review and so on and so forth. I get press releases that I don't read.

Ahead of the general public? Sometimes not by that much. Keep in mind places like IGN, or, seeing as we're an NSider rip, GoNintendo, just post the releases as soon as they get them. It does allow me to see things before others: I had hands on with the 3DS (after last E3, mind you, but in a private showing).

Being realistic, it's nothing amazing. But in terms of all those other sites and the like, it's infinitely more. Those I'm closest with would be the mobile ones (EA, Sega, Appular) because that's what I was writing.

However, to throw a point your way...having one writer with contacts doesn't realy mean much.

It doesn't really mean that much on a small scale like this, no, but it's still impressive that you've picked up all those contacts.  Like you said, it's infinitely more than most of those sites have.  You're not gonna be getting big exclusives, but it's nice to know you have that under your belt.  I still say that a gaming site that isn't for a niche audience is doomed to failure, though.  Also, any connections are meaningless when they're Canadian.  You know nobody cares about Canada.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 06:22:07 PM
Quote from: Genius on May 05, 2011, 05:02:47 PM
Not particularly, no!

Funny, I don't see any change in any of that.  It sounds to me like NSFCD will remain the same but on a new server, and they'll just give it a bunch of sister sites on a network.
And that isn't a change? NSF is going from one site to a conglomerate of similar sites... that's change enough to me, and everyone else. I'm not talking about these forums we are currently posting on, I'm talking about the network.

QuoteI'm not saying anything about Silver and Mack being college students.  That's fine.  I'm not one of those people who thinks you can only make a successful site if you're older.  If anything, college students are the ones with the best chance of getting successful with that stuff.  It's the group with the most technical skill in the area, for the most part.  However, that doesn't mean that Facebook relates to this situation at all.  It was started by a college student, but it's an entirely different thing.  Aside from it already being a one in a million kind of situation, there's also that MySpace was the only other known site to offer that kind of social networking at the time, and it was heavily populated by a younger crowd.  There was a clear opening for someone to pull the college crowd with a similar concept.  That's exactly what happened.  It was just filling demand.  There is no demand for more gaming sites.  There's no unserved crowd there.
Clearly you're not familiar with certain projects I don't think I'm at liberty to reveal just yet. So I won't attack this at the moment.

QuoteBy offering something the competition doesn't.  That's the only way to get ahead.  You can't name one thing this site or Shh Mom offers that you can't get anywhere else.
Our goal isn't to have just NSF and Shh Mom; while these are two of the first sites here, there will be more.

QuoteBy that logic, this place should have been just as successful.  They started out about the same time.  In fact, I think this one came first.  They both aimed to try and fill that void left by Nsider closing.  Yet, Nsider2 completely eclipsed NSF.  NS2 was no more exact copy than this place at the time.  So why was NS2 so much more successful, again?
NSF and NSider2 took completely different approaches at this. I personally like this better, since it's a small community where everyone knows each other. And considering I've been friends with the head admin here for some time without being staff, that's pretty cool. That doesn't just happen on any site... and Silver is pretty much friends with everyone here, and we all love him.

QuoteYou're missing the point, obviously.  You don't care if you have millions of people visiting your sites or not.  Don't throw a we out there like you're part of the project.  Having a small group of friends for a community might be fine with you, and that's fine if it's all you expect, but that's not success, and it's not good enough for someone who wants to turn communities into an enterprise.  When you make that turn, it's about numbers.  You can't just be satisfied because you have a small core memberbase.  You need to focus on growth.
I'm not part of the project? Actually, while I am not up there on Mack's level, I am actually contributing to the expansion of this network in some way. It's a relatively small way, but it's not like I'm just watching this entirely from the sidelines. Also, ever heard that saying about quality and quantity? So what if we don't have a million members.. having a smaller userbase can be considered successful too. Maybe not if you're after an extreme communist society full of people who hate each other, but we like it.

QuoteExplained above.  Before reading this, too, so don't think I had to struggle to explain it.  There was a market to appeal to.  Simple as that.  And it's generally pretty safe to assume that the people behind a project like this don't have media connections.  For one, that is something where age means more, since it usually involves some kind of connection to the industry.  As you can see, even the connections Mack has are just indie things.  But then again, you probably follow that Nsider mindset that "media connections" means "access to Nintendo's press site", so maybe it is fair to assume everyone has it.
Don't say things without having full information; there's much more to this than you know.

QuoteSomething you've never done before?  It's hardly different from this site with a different name.  Or Shh Mom.  Or probably this Area 6 I keep seeing mentions of.  Sorry, I don't subscribe to the belief that everything's fine just because you tried.  You shouldn't even bother trying if it's hopeless from the beginning.  You would be better off saving the effort you could put into a failure and start planning out something that could actually work.  Just falling back on something as uninspired as this is the easy way out.
Just wait, we've got more.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Silverhawk79 on May 05, 2011, 06:33:12 PM
By the way, here's our stats from Shh Mom.

(http://i.imgur.com/wxECC.png)

And I've verified that they're not bots, surprisingly enough.
Additionally, we haven't posted much on Shh Mom recently because me and Mack have both been balls deep (heehee) in other activities. Finals, moving out of school, etc. We'll be resuming a nice regular flow of content in a day or two.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Doodle on May 05, 2011, 06:34:51 PM
Is that saying the average time a single visitor spends on the site is 2:39? :U
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Kayo on May 05, 2011, 06:36:09 PM
There's the trump card.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Silverhawk79 on May 05, 2011, 06:39:56 PM
Quote from: Doodle on May 05, 2011, 06:34:51 PM
Is that saying the average time a single visitor spends on the site is 2:39? :U
Yeah. In internet time, that's a fair length.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Tahrann on June 23, 2011, 10:47:33 PM
Damn, that whole Snorkel mess brings me back....
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Zero on July 19, 2011, 02:32:47 AM
If anything, watching Kayo struggle to argue with Genius was entertaining.

Mack, just keep doing your thing.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Kayo on July 19, 2011, 09:44:05 AM
Quote from: Zero on July 19, 2011, 02:32:47 AM
If anything, watching Kayo struggle to argue with Genius was entertaining.

Mack, just keep doing your thing.
3 years ago?
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Zero on July 19, 2011, 10:46:03 AM
Quote from: Kayo on July 19, 2011, 09:44:05 AM
3 years ago?

Pardon?

Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Kayo on July 19, 2011, 12:59:31 PM
Quote from: Zero on July 19, 2011, 10:46:03 AM
Pardon?


You're talking about three years ago?
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Zero on July 19, 2011, 02:49:46 PM
Quote from: Kayo on July 19, 2011, 12:59:31 PM
You're talking about three years ago?

This thread isn't 3 years old, lol.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: JMV on July 19, 2011, 03:04:36 PM
Quote from: Axelayer on April 03, 2011, 12:16:14 PM
If people want an explanation of the name:

[spoiler]Network
krowteN
krowten
crowten
tencrow
10Crow[/spoiler]
Wouldn't it be less steps to go

Network
tenkrow
TenCrow
10Crow
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: JMV on July 19, 2011, 03:08:00 PM
Quote from: Silverhawk79 on May 05, 2011, 10:03:57 AM
This isn't an immediate process.
it's been a few months has the process moved forward yet
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: JMV on July 19, 2011, 03:24:07 PM
Quote from: Silverhawk79 on May 05, 2011, 06:33:12 PM
By the way, here's our stats from Shh Mom.

(http://i.imgur.com/wxECC.png)

And I've verified that they're not bots, surprisingly enough.
Additionally, we haven't posted much on Shh Mom recently because me and Mack have both been balls deep (heehee) in other activities. Finals, moving out of school, etc. We'll be resuming a nice regular flow of content in a day or two.
You verified they're not bots even though you have a bounce rate exceeding 60%?
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Kayo on July 19, 2011, 06:50:27 PM
Quote from: Zero on July 19, 2011, 02:49:46 PM
This thread isn't 3 years old, lol.
Whoops, I'm thinking wrong. I wasn't really putting effort into Genius this time, it was really other people. But whatever.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Zero on July 19, 2011, 08:21:24 PM
Quote from: Kayo on July 19, 2011, 06:50:27 PM
Whoops, I'm thinking wrong. I wasn't really putting effort into Genius this time, it was really other people. But whatever.

lol, I see.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Kayo on July 19, 2011, 08:41:52 PM
Quote from: Zero on July 19, 2011, 08:21:24 PM
lol, I see.
Quiet, you. Confusing me.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Custom on July 26, 2011, 11:43:06 PM
Quote from: JMV on July 19, 2011, 03:04:36 PM
Wouldn't it be less steps to go

Network
tenkrow
TenCrow
10Crow

yeah you're right
JMV FOR ADMIN
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Kayo on July 26, 2011, 11:54:21 PM
Quote from: Custom on July 26, 2011, 11:43:06 PM
yeah you're right
JMV FOR ADMIN
oh god
it reminds of me when i had to take geometry
and proofs
and my intercourse ing ninny of a teacher always gave me failing grades because my proofs didn't have enough steps

intercourse  steps
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Custom on July 27, 2011, 12:01:36 AM
Quote from: Kayo on July 26, 2011, 11:54:21 PM
oh god
it reminds of me when i had to take geometry
and proofs
and my intercourse ing ninny of a teacher always gave me failing grades because my proofs didn't have enough steps

intercourse  steps

yeah you're right
jmv for lowlier than a goomba
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: buttlord420 on December 11, 2012, 10:24:59 PM
looks like genius was right
good job
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Silverhawk79 on December 15, 2012, 09:44:25 PM
Quote from: SilverHunter35 on December 11, 2012, 10:24:59 PM
looks like genius was right
good job
sh-shut up
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Genius on December 16, 2012, 09:58:18 AM
Ahahahaha.

Bow to the king.
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Custom on December 16, 2012, 02:50:22 PM
Quote from: Genius on December 16, 2012, 09:58:18 AM
Ahahahaha.

Bow to the king.
oh god what

please stay forever you and me
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: buttlord420 on December 16, 2012, 06:21:47 PM
Quote from: Custom on December 16, 2012, 02:50:22 PM
oh god what

please stay forever you and me
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: on December 16, 2012, 09:41:15 PM
Quote from: Genius on December 16, 2012, 09:58:18 AM
Ahahahaha.

Bow to the king.
dude
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Silverhawk79 on December 16, 2012, 10:31:03 PM
Quote from: Genius on December 16, 2012, 09:58:18 AM
Ahahahaha.

Bow to the king.
oh god it's happening
p.s. 10crow still exists but we're working on other things
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Genius on December 17, 2012, 08:40:02 AM
Quote from: Silverhawk79 on December 16, 2012, 10:31:03 PM
p.s. 10crow still exists but we're working on other things

A funeral?
Title: Re: We're now 10Crow
Post by: Super on December 22, 2012, 09:14:35 PM
I love Genius.