NSFCD

Generally Speaking => Serious Discussion => Topic started by: Tupin on November 16, 2011, 08:54:25 PM

Title: Space exploration.
Post by: Tupin on November 16, 2011, 08:54:25 PM
The Space Shuttle program is gone, after decades of flight. Its replacement won't be ready for a few years, and especially with the cancellation of the Constellation program, I wonder where NASA is headed. India and the EU say they plan on going to the moon in around ten years. Meanwhile, NASA has no plans since the cancellation of their programs. I always believed that I would see a manned Mars landing, but that seems so far off, especially when the space program is such a low priority.

What do you think about space exploration? What about the rise of private spaceflight?
Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Ravioli on November 17, 2011, 03:00:54 PM
Space exploration is pretty much an expensive pissing contest. I don't really care either way. Fuck landing on Mars.

I'd rather pump money into cleaning up the infinitesimal chunk of rock we already live on.
Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Tupin on November 17, 2011, 03:57:29 PM
I just think that its been so long since the Apollo program, and because all we've been doing since the 1980's is running science experiments, many don't see it as worth it. The Challenger and Columbia disasters didn't help.

We wouldn't have landed on the moon in 1969 if it weren't for the Cold War. I would like to think humans would be able to look past nationalities for the advancement of our species, but what will motivate people is a competing country doing it first.

As for a manned Mars landing, I think it will happen eventually. Obviously civilians will not be able to experience any of this until space travel becomes common, but that kind of falls under that we need new designs for spacecraft, ones that aren't powered by chemical rockets.
Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Zero on November 21, 2011, 11:54:30 AM
There isn't much point to space exploration right now. We definitely need to focus on our planet instead of our solar system, especially considering this is the only planet in the system that is even habitable.

http://futuretimeline.net/22ndcentury/22ndcentury.htm

http://futuretimeline.net/23rdcentury/23rdcentury.htm

These predictions are optimistic.

Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Tupin on November 21, 2011, 03:03:02 PM
Those are pretty optimistic, I agree. Though terraforming would take generations, Mars would be a viable planet for human habitation before that if done in special habitats. Mining Mars would provide Earth with a lot of resources.

I don't think we are ready for this now, however. Mars has always been a target, but I think an asteroid may be visited first. Either way, unmanned missions need to continue, especially ones that research about future possibilities of human development of Mars as well as sample-return missions.

Plus, private spaceflight companies are getting setup, and even if they don't offer anything beyond just a flight in orbit or to a station, its a pretty big deal.

Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Zero on November 21, 2011, 08:49:54 PM
Theoretically, terraforming a planet would be so unbelievably expensive that it would probably take an agreement between most nations on Earth to even fund it.

Venus: Massive alteration of atmosphere required
Mars: You'd have to force the atmosphere to grow in addition to altering it, and then keep it there. Mars lacks the gravity to sustain a life supporting atmosphere. We don't even know if altering gravity at a planetary scale is feasible, but we'd like to think it is.

Colonizing Europa would be science fiction irl. You'd have to make an Atlantis under the sheets of ice because of the constant bombardment of radiation the surface receives, and even then who knows what the intercourse  is down there. Could be Cthulhu for all we know.

And unless we figure out a way to travel at light speed without disintegrating then most people will hardly think traveling around the solar system is worth it. Current technology can't replicate Earth's gravity in a space vehicle, and we know what problems zero-g causes. Fuck.that.

Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Tupin on November 22, 2011, 03:25:21 PM
Venus is more like Earth in terms of size and atmosphere than Mars, but Mars would be more easily habitable. Either way, terraforming would take a lot of work.

Artificial gravity has been experimented with, the most common idea is to have the ship rotate in a certain way.

I've seen terraforming Mars in several ways. In one proposal I saw a series of carbon-dioxide producing craft landing on the surface and help in contributing to the greenhouse effect. I've also seen mirrors to melt the poles and keep heat in.
Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Zero on November 22, 2011, 03:36:03 PM
Indeed.

Experimentation with artificial gravity hasn't yielded substantial results(as far as I know). If it can be done and done well then I will be pleasantly surprised. When it happens it'll be a step forward.

Like I said though, Mars just lacks the gravity to even hold an atmosphere that could sustain life as we know it. Those ideas are interesting to say the least.

How would one even go about building a giant mirror?

Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Kayo on November 22, 2011, 07:26:42 PM
Honestly, there are more important things we need to focus on now. We shouldn't worry about other planets while we have stuff going on our own, like people said. Also, the cost to terraform any other planets, added to the constant cost and difficulty of transportation if it becomes a more common destination doesn't seem worth it at all. If there's some speed-of-sound transportation breakthrough in the future, we might see something. It just seems too science-fiction now.
Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Zero on November 22, 2011, 07:58:39 PM
Quote from: Gravy-o on November 22, 2011, 07:26:42 PM
If there's some speed-of-sound transportation breakthrough in the future, we might see something.


uh...what?

We've had mach technology for decades man. Conventional chemical rockets used to leave Earth's atmosphere travel at around 25,000km an hour(depending on the purpose of the rocket). That's quite faster than the speed of sound.

Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Tupin on November 22, 2011, 08:31:32 PM
Speaking of chemical rockets, that's probably what is holding space exploration back.  It just isn't a very good method continuous space travel. A space plane/SSTO vehicle would be ideal of course, or even a rocket-sled launched one. Ion engines are way more powerful once you reach space.

A solar sail might be good for missions closer to the sun, too.
Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Kayo on November 22, 2011, 08:31:55 PM
Quote from: Michio Kaku on November 22, 2011, 07:58:39 PM
uh...what?

We've had mach technology for decades man. Conventional chemical rockets used to leave Earth's atmosphere travel at around 25,000km an hour(depending on the purpose of the rocket). That's quite faster than the speed of sound.


Yes, but it's not at a great practicality level yet. Also I think I meant to say light instead of sound.
Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Zero on November 22, 2011, 08:46:33 PM
Quote from: Gravy-o on November 22, 2011, 08:31:55 PM
Yes, but it's not at a great practicality level yet. Also I think I meant to say light instead of sound.


If that's the case then why are you defending your comment?
Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Kayo on November 22, 2011, 09:27:09 PM
Quote from: Michio Kaku on November 22, 2011, 08:46:33 PM
If that's the case then why are you defending your comment?
Because I'm making it clear that I don't deny the existence of speed-of-sound travel. It just wasn't what I meant to say in my original post, which made it sound like I thought we haven't achieved that yet.
Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Zero on November 25, 2011, 01:55:57 PM
Quote from: Gravy-o on November 22, 2011, 09:27:09 PM
It just wasn't what I meant to say in my original post, which made it sound like I thought we haven't achieved that yet.


Read before posting I guess.


Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Kayo on November 25, 2011, 04:46:15 PM
Quote from: Michio Kaku on November 25, 2011, 01:55:57 PM
Read before posting I guess.



I don't care enough to do any preview or any of that here.
Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Tupin on November 25, 2011, 09:18:59 PM
Well, Curiosity launches tomorrow and lands on Mars in August 2012. It's searching for microbiotic life, and will attempt a precise landing for the first time.
Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Zero on November 26, 2011, 12:16:50 PM
Quote from: Gravy-o on November 25, 2011, 04:46:15 PM
I don't care enough to do any preview or any of that here.


lol and you wonder why you get so much poop

Quote from: Tupin on November 25, 2011, 09:18:59 PM
Well, Curiosity launches tomorrow and lands on Mars in August 2012. It's searching for microbiotic life, and will attempt a precise landing for the first time.


I'm skeptical about microbiotic life being on Mars.
Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Tupin on November 26, 2011, 01:53:25 PM
It's searching for evidence of fossilized microbiotic life, apparently.
Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Zero on November 26, 2011, 03:22:57 PM
I'll be pleased if they make any discoveries.

Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Kayo on November 26, 2011, 06:57:13 PM
Quote from: Michio Kaku on November 26, 2011, 12:16:50 PM
lol and you wonder why you get so much poop
Again, neither me nor anyone else cares about NSFCD.

QuoteI'm skeptical about microbiotic life being on Mars.
I don't think there's anything there at all. It's going to take some REAL SOLID proof to get me to think otherwise.
Title: Re: Space exploration.
Post by: Zero on November 26, 2011, 09:51:16 PM
Quote from: Gravy-o on November 26, 2011, 06:57:13 PM
Again, neither me nor anyone else cares about NSFCD.


You're posting here. Don't even try to make that claim.

Quote from: Gravy-o on November 26, 2011, 06:57:13 PM
I don't think there's anything there at all. It's going to take some REAL SOLID proof to get me to think otherwise.


Yeah I don't really blame you for believing that.