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Generally Speaking => Serious Discussion => Topic started by: Flying Chickens on April 20, 2012, 07:05:50 PM

Title: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: Flying Chickens on April 20, 2012, 07:05:50 PM
So I've recently been accepted to a few universities for Writing and English programs. One of my teachers told me that the viability of writing for a living is almost non-existent if you aren't willing to pimp yourself out (re-writing later editions, doing travel brochures, etc.) so I gritted myself down and so far in the past three months I've pumped out five short stories, and since the end of Spring Break, five chapters of a novel (I've only just hit 15000 words). I'm feeling fairly confident about it.
I guess to make this less focused on me and more on just the general population of this forum, is what you're planning on doing for a living really viable? Do you care?
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: Nayrman on April 21, 2012, 07:21:18 AM
You seem to be under the assumption that it is in fact possible to make a living as a young person anymore.
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: Zero on April 21, 2012, 08:12:26 AM
Quote from: Nayrman on April 21, 2012, 07:21:18 AM
You seem to be under the assumption that it is in fact possible to make a living as a young person anymore.

Exactly.

I'm not sure any of the candidates running for president are even addressing this.
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: Nayrman on April 21, 2012, 08:17:02 AM
Quote from: Z on April 21, 2012, 08:12:26 AM
Exactly.

I'm not sure any of the candidates running for president are even addressing this.

They're not. They're too busy bowing to their corporate overlords and making sure the old people still get their medicare because that apparently matters a million times more. (Note, I am not against medicare or medicaid, just that there's an obscene amount of catering to the old baby boomer generation than there is trying to get the current youth group off the ground)
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: Ravioli on April 21, 2012, 04:32:05 PM
Tertiary education pretty much isn't worth it anymore unless you're going into a field for something that requires specialized training like medicine. Tuition rates continue to go up and up, scholarships become harder and harder to get, and interest rates for student loans will bury you into a hole you'll never get out of for the rest of your life.

This is why I'm not going to school for the humanities even though I love them. It's too much intercourse ing money that I don't have for knowledge that can essentially be acquired by reading a poop ton of books, and a useless degree that employers care less and less about because so many people have them. The future belongs to science majors. I'm not too worried about landing a job after university, though. Toronto has one of the biggest construction markets on the planet right now and civil engineers/architects are always in demand.

Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: Kayo on April 23, 2012, 12:14:20 PM
Quote from: Nayrman on April 21, 2012, 07:21:18 AM
You seem to be under the assumption that it is in fact possible to make a living as a young person anymore.
/thread
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: RX-78-2 on April 30, 2012, 08:54:43 AM
I've been having serious doubts about making a living after college. I plan to (probably maybe) move to L.A. and work in the entertainment industry, whether it's film/television or music. I also want to be a comic book writer though, so it's hard to look forward and see something probable.

Good luck writing though, Chickens. That's pretty much what I'm in college for right now: dramatic writing. Granted, I haven't really started my major yet--nor have I declared it--but that's because I'm also looking into sound design (audio editing/production) and sequential art (comic books).
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: Kayo on April 30, 2012, 05:59:15 PM
I don't really have much opportunity around where I live since it's a pretty insignificant city with not much to offer. I might migrate 90 miles south to New York City and see what there is down there, but I heard it was a pretty expensive place to live. It IS arguably the most diverse city in the world, though, so I could probably do anything I wanted there.

I say that, but I'll probably end up stuck in the city I grew up in doing absolutely nothing with my life. :/ </pessimism>
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: Nayrman on May 17, 2012, 03:57:08 AM
I really wouldn't try Southern California or New York guys. They're INSANELY expensive to live in or near, and the job market is horrendous. Are there technically more jobs there to fill? Yes, but there are also ten times the number of applicants in those cities, especially for media work where no one is hiring period, let alone when there are so many people trying to get those jobs.
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: Kayo on May 18, 2012, 02:29:51 PM
Quote from: Nayrman on May 17, 2012, 03:57:08 AM
I really wouldn't try Southern California or New York guys. They're INSANELY expensive to live in or near, and the job market is horrendous. Are there technically more jobs there to fill? Yes, but there are also ten times the number of applicants in those cities, especially for media work where no one is hiring period, let alone when there are so many people trying to get those jobs.
County-wise, I already technically live in the NYC Metropolitan Area. I'd probably just get closer to the city itself while still not actually being in it. There are plenty of less-crowded outlying areas that are still close enough to make visiting the city no problem at all. It all depends on where exactly you go.
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: Dog Food on May 22, 2012, 01:48:47 PM
Yep. Making a living in general nowadays is insanely tough. I have a great on-campus job which gives me enough money to survive the eight months that I'm in school. But when I came home for the summer it became instantly apparent that no place is hiring. Literally, no place. Finding a summer job is an impossible task and I'm looking at the prospect of finding my bank account dwindling every day I stay at home.

As for my future job, well... I'm at school for screenwriting. That means I'm expected to fly out to LA after college and attempt to find some network to take pity on me and buy some of my scripts. I'll be freelancing, looking for jobs, hoping that I can make a break in Hollywood and end up on a writing team. Do you know how hard it is for fresh meat to get a steady job in the movie business? Nigh impossible. I'm busy trying to make connections while I'm at school and get enough experience that when I'm thrown into a job in the future, I'll know enough to stay afloat. But first I need an agent, register with the WGA... And I'll need to find a job, any job, to sustain myself while I write specs to sell.

It's hard work, bro. For any profession. But that's why it's called work and not breezy. Or some other equivalent title that is a synonym of words that relate to ease.
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: Nayrman on May 23, 2012, 04:04:09 AM
Wow, a screenwriter? Good intercourse in' luck dude. I'm in video production and there is NOTHING to be found in movies, tv, journalism, nada. You've really just gotta hope someone really high up somewhere takes a liking to you. That's the only way you stand any chance in doing anything in entertainment unfortunately. Too much money tied up into everything to the point that only the insiders get a slice, and the doors are barred shut so no one outside gets in. *glares evilly at Turner and their complete disregard for anyone under the age of 35*


And I only somewhat agree with your "it's work, not breezy" assessment. It's not that it's work, it's that no one from our generation is GETTING any work. Somewhere around half of new college graduates (Basically around the 25-26 age or younger) are either unemployed completely or massively under-employed. Hell, the best I can possibly hope for right now is get some very low level "internship" or "temporary" position and live with my parents the next two or three years, and hope that experience transfers over to something some company actually wants. (note, this isn't likely as everything near me wants 5+ years of experience no one can possibly get due to lack of experience! JOY!) The unemployment line may be dwindling but for the most part it's going to the middle aged people who already have a lot of work experience when things were better. I seriously wonder what's going to become of this country 10 years from now when their main workforce is generally under-utilized, under-paid, and completely unable to get off the ground due to a variety of factors. Gonna be oh so fun trying to get a house when you're working more than full time and barely making 25-30k a year. *rolls eyes*
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: RX-78-2 on June 05, 2012, 02:25:06 AM
Dog Food, we're in the exact same boat. I feel for you. I really want to move to LA too, but I know I'm going to hate the weather. I go to college in Savannah, Georgia (on summer break at the moment) and I hate hot weather.

Nayrman, I know the job market is bad in southern California and that it's expensive to live there, but--not that I pay for anything--I already live in an expensive state (NJ), and Savannah is really cheap. I prefer dealing with the high costs, to be honest. As for the entertainment industry, I know how difficult it is to be successful, but I'll just join the military if I fail hard.
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: ThePowerOfOne on June 05, 2012, 09:50:39 PM
You don't want to live in LA. Just sayin'. It's ghetto as hell, the touristy spots are nice, but the rest is pretty trashy. Unless you want to spend ungodly amounts of money to live in Beverly Hills or Calabasas or something. I love cities, but I only go there for a couple days if I want to get away for a while or to go to a concert/club. I like San Diego more. Still kinda ghetto, but it just feels... Brighter, or something. The weather is a little bipolar; sometimes it's sunny and hotter than hell and other days cloudy and freezing balls, but still nice. The fact that Mexico is right next door is awesome too. Or not. Depends on how racist you are, I guess. I happen to love the fact that you can drink and go to any strip club you want in Tijuana with nobody giving a poop. (just don't talk to strangers)
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: Dog Food on June 07, 2012, 11:59:07 AM
Quote from: Nayrman on May 23, 2012, 04:04:09 AM
Wow, a screenwriter? Good intercourse in' luck dude. I'm in video production and there is NOTHING to be found in movies, tv, journalism, nada. You've really just gotta hope someone really high up somewhere takes a liking to you. That's the only way you stand any chance in doing anything in entertainment unfortunately. Too much money tied up into everything to the point that only the insiders get a slice, and the doors are barred shut so no one outside gets in. *glares evilly at Turner and their complete disregard for anyone under the age of 35*


And I only somewhat agree with your "it's work, not breezy" assessment. It's not that it's work, it's that no one from our generation is GETTING any work. Somewhere around half of new college graduates (Basically around the 25-26 age or younger) are either unemployed completely or massively under-employed. Hell, the best I can possibly hope for right now is get some very low level "internship" or "temporary" position and live with my parents the next two or three years, and hope that experience transfers over to something some company actually wants. (note, this isn't likely as everything near me wants 5+ years of experience no one can possibly get due to lack of experience! JOY!) The unemployment line may be dwindling but for the most part it's going to the middle aged people who already have a lot of work experience when things were better. I seriously wonder what's going to become of this country 10 years from now when their main workforce is generally under-utilized, under-paid, and completely unable to get off the ground due to a variety of factors. Gonna be oh so fun trying to get a house when you're working more than full time and barely making 25-30k a year. *rolls eyes*
The worst part is that, like you said, everything is going to the older people with experience. It's a catch-22. We need experience, they need someone with experience, so they hire the older people who got their experience from working when they were our age. So now we can't get the experience and when we're middle-aged we won't be hirable the way that the middle-aged generation is now, so places will want to hire the young people who they can train easily and pay cheaply rather than the older people (us) with degrees and nothing to show for it. If that's a catch-22. Maybe. Ah well. I'm kinda just hoping things will work itself out. Government gets into these ruts almost generationally and things usually balance out eventually...

Quote from: RX-78-2 on June 05, 2012, 02:25:06 AM
Dog Food, we're in the exact same boat. I feel for you. I really want to move to LA too, but I know I'm going to hate the weather. I go to college in Savannah, Georgia (on summer break at the moment) and I hate hot weather.

Nayrman, I know the job market is bad in southern California and that it's expensive to live there, but--not that I pay for anything--I already live in an expensive state (NJ), and Savannah is really cheap. I prefer dealing with the high costs, to be honest. As for the entertainment industry, I know how difficult it is to be successful, but I'll just join the military if I fail hard.
Well then I raise my glass to you. Hopefully we can break through. Maybe we should conspire together or something, haha. Personally, I don't mind the LA weather, so that won't be a problem for me. It's more about the cost and living in a city with horrendous traffic. Also the fact that I live in Connecticut and I'll literally be moving to the other side of the country.

Quote from: Misha on June 05, 2012, 09:50:39 PM
You don't want to live in LA. Just sayin'. It's ghetto as hell, the touristy spots are nice, but the rest is pretty trashy. Unless you want to spend ungodly amounts of money to live in Beverly Hills or Calabasas or something. I love cities, but I only go there for a couple days if I want to get away for a while or to go to a concert/club. I like San Diego more. Still kinda ghetto, but it just feels... Brighter, or something. The weather is a little bipolar; sometimes it's sunny and hotter than hell and other days cloudy and freezing balls, but still nice. The fact that Mexico is right next door is awesome too. Or not. Depends on how racist you are, I guess. I happen to love the fact that you can drink and go to any strip club you want in Tijuana with nobody giving a poop. (just don't talk to strangers)
My brother lives in San Diego, so yeah it's a nice place. If the commute from San Diego to wherever I'd be working in LA wasn't bad, I'd probably prefer that option. Especially because I can probably get him to help me out and hook me up (and he married rich, so...). But I'm living in Boston right now for college and I'm fine with that city life.
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: RX-78-2 on June 14, 2012, 04:50:59 AM
Quote from: Misha on June 05, 2012, 09:50:39 PM
You don't want to live in LA. Just sayin'. It's ghetto as hell, the touristy spots are nice, but the rest is pretty trashy. Unless you want to spend ungodly amounts of money to live in Beverly Hills or Calabasas or something. I love cities, but I only go there for a couple days if I want to get away for a while or to go to a concert/club. I like San Diego more. Still kinda ghetto, but it just feels... Brighter, or something. The weather is a little bipolar; sometimes it's sunny and hotter than hell and other days cloudy and freezing balls, but still nice. The fact that Mexico is right next door is awesome too. Or not. Depends on how racist you are, I guess. I happen to love the fact that you can drink and go to any strip club you want in Tijuana with nobody giving a poop. (just don't talk to strangers)
Maybe I should clarify. I'd never actually live in L.A., only near it, in a suburb or something. I don't really care for cities, so that's another deterrent anyway.

Quote from: Dog Food on June 07, 2012, 11:59:07 AM
Well then I raise my glass to you. Hopefully we can break through. Maybe we should conspire together or something, haha. Personally, I don't mind the LA weather, so that won't be a problem for me. It's more about the cost and living in a city with horrendous traffic. Also the fact that I live in Connecticut and I'll literally be moving to the other side of the country.
The cost scares me too, and the traffic is going to be awful--the fact that I'm a horrible driver doesn't help (I don't even have my license yet). I'd love to move to the other side of the country though. I was halfway done with my application to California Institute of the Arts, so--assuming I'd have been accepted (had I finished my application)--I almost moved to the L.A./Valencia area for college. I'm still considering it for graduate school. I just really want to get as far away as possible from home and everyone and I know. I had some success with going to college in Savannah, but it's still not far enough.

But I digress. If you were serious about collaborating on a work, I'd be more than happy to oblige you. I have a lot of ideas for movies, TV series (live-action and animation), comic books, etc. and would love to share them with a fellow screenwriter. I generally keep my ideas to myself so as to prevent them from getting stolen, but I make exceptions for people such as yourself. Who knows? Maybe we could even write a script together and complete it before we're off to the "real" world. I've been looking for potential collaborators for a while now, but--long story short--haven't had any luck with finding any writers of any kind. PM me if you're interested. I'll try to respond quicker than how often I usually log on here.

Edit: And don't worry if you read this really late; my offer doesn't expire.
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: jnfs2014 on June 14, 2012, 05:11:27 AM
With two years left in high school, I am not in immediate concern to make a living. However, during these next two years I will probably study the field in which I will later go to college for when I graduate high school.

One would be a script writer/lead writer on a video game organization such as Bungie or Square Enix. I would probably start off small, then take on a larger role.

Another route would be to take the technological slice of the figurative pie that is the list of my career choices. That route would involve probably learned things like C++ and Java fluently, as well as how to use them correctly.

Another option would to be a sports writer. I love writing, and I love sports, so it could very well fit.

Finally, the last route I can see myself taking is probably the most difficult: business tycoon. While my cunning wit and my exquisite hunger for things I love are great, there are plenty of other unknown aspiring businessman.

That being said, all three roads look feasible at this moment in my life.


Edit: Put them into paragraphs to avoid clutter.
Edit 2: Forgot my fourth career choice. Put it in.
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: RX-78-2 on June 15, 2012, 01:44:01 AM
You do know that the "video game organizations" you mentioned are called "developers", right? Just thought you should know in case you try entering the industry. =P

Anyway, your first job pick is pretty much my main occupational aspiration. I want to write for movies, TV, video games, comics, etc. I first wanted to make the concept art for video games and cartoons, but I really need to improve my drawing skills and such before I reconsider that line of work.
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: jnfs2014 on June 15, 2012, 04:12:39 AM
Quote from: RX-78-2 on June 15, 2012, 01:44:01 AM
You do know that the "video game organizations" you mentioned are called "developers", right? Just thought you should know in case you try entering the industry. =P

Anyway, your first job pick is pretty much my main occupational aspiration. I want to write for movies, TV, video games, comics, etc. I first wanted to make the concept art for video games and cartoons, but I really need to improve my drawing skills and such before I reconsider that line of work.
Yeah, I know. I just didn't want to use the word developers. :P
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: RX-78-2 on June 17, 2012, 12:44:06 AM
Huh. Mmm--'kay. ;)
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: The Seventh on July 31, 2012, 09:40:39 PM
As much as I hate to dig this back up...I will put my own two cents in.

I decided lately to enter a community college to pick up a trade-welding.  I found it is going to be affordable...only 4.5k for the entire program.

And welders can make good money.

In fact...the program is so inexpensive my grocery store job is paying for it while I have my own small set of bills...so I hope to see something good come out of this.
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: RX-78-2 on August 02, 2012, 12:55:32 PM
Very good. :) I hope it works out for you; it sounds like a great deal.
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: The Seventh on August 04, 2012, 04:36:04 PM
Quote from: RX-78-2 on August 02, 2012, 12:55:32 PM
Very good. :) I hope it works out for you; it sounds like a great deal.
Definitely.  Quite easily I could likely get hired straight out of it at a local John Deere and get tons of benefits and good pay.  A relative of mine, in fact, works there, and has to so he can support his son's medical bills...which are sky high due to his Autism and high risk for seizures.
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: Light on October 15, 2012, 12:47:13 AM
My current major is Acting (BFA hopeful. Yeah. "hopeful"). I think that speaks for itself.

Yeah, I'm worried about finding a job after university. I mean, I don't know anyone who isn't. But I'm sure I'll find a way. The entertainment industry is one that's constantly growing, not shrinking. And not just the amount of jobs, but the kinds of jobs. The jobs that will be available in five to ten to twenty years from now will be things we've never heard of right now. They're being conceived every moment.

It's getting the job that's the problem. But to say that the arts is over-saturated is redundant; with unemployment the way it is, I think it's safe to say that almost every job market is over-saturated.

Quote from: Dog Food on May 22, 2012, 01:48:47 PM
That means I'm expected to fly out to LA after college and attempt to find some network to take pity on me and buy some of my scripts.

COME LIVE WITH ME WE'LL BE STARVING ARTISTS TOGETHER
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: RX-78-2 on November 20, 2012, 04:46:41 PM
Quote from: Light on October 15, 2012, 12:47:13 AM
COME LIVE WITH ME WE'LL BE STARVING ARTISTS TOGETHER
Sorry, dude; I have dibs. ;)

jk. And if you read this Mo, we'll be neighbors or something, but we can be roomies if you like (or if we need to be lol)

Supposing you're serious about your craft, you're welcome to help Dog Food and I write scripts and stuff if you're interested. Maybe we'll all be starving artists together...
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: Light on November 28, 2012, 02:24:26 AM
Quote from: RX-78-2 on November 20, 2012, 04:46:41 PM
Sorry, dude; I have dibs. ;)

jk. And if you read this Mo, we'll be neighbors or something, but we can be roomies if you like (or if we need to be lol)

Supposing you're serious about your craft, you're welcome to help Dog Food and I write scripts and stuff if you're interested. Maybe we'll all be starving artists together...
I'm currently writing a musical so we shall see.
Title: Re: Viability of Making a Living
Post by: RX-78-2 on March 20, 2013, 11:57:25 PM
Sorry for the bump.

Oops for not seeing this earlier, but tell me about your progress on that when you can. I've always been interested in writing a musical, including composing for one.