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DKC Returns for the 3DS

Started by Lotos, March 31, 2013, 09:30:16 AM

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Kayo

Quote from: AdamSakuru on April 16, 2013, 06:37:13 PM
I'm just going to say that I actually really hate this game. Like, it's not as fun to play as the original ones. The controls aren't as solid (and forcing us to use motion controls to roll, really?) and not going to lie I really miss the Kremlings. The new antagonists just aren't as cool. I dunno.
Agree. Did Retro not get the rights to use the Kremlings or something? I don't see why they didn't "return" with everything else.

QuoteI also miss the physics system. Like, in classic DKC for example, when you would roll into an enemy, you would gain speed. Some levels were designed with this in mind. The guys at Retro claimed that they had paid attention to all the details of classic DKC so it would play just like it, but basic physics like this weren't in the game. I had a lot of deaths because I would assume this would happen, but wouldn't (and was just used to thinking that).
Please name one of these levels.

Quote from: Custom on April 16, 2013, 07:00:34 PM
people act like these games are perfect like Super Mario World and I don't understand why
Yet you haven't really listed anything wrong with them so I really can't respond to this. I'm gonna need a bit more than "there are better platformers," like you could tell me what you think DKC was missing.
I really hate how I've made more than 12,000 posts here. Thankfully this swaying, moving Chandelure makes it all worth it.
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Custom

Quote from: Kayo on April 16, 2013, 08:02:28 PM
Agree. Did Retro not get the rights to use the Kremlings or something? I don't see why they didn't "return" with everything else.
Please name one of these levels.
Yet you haven't really listed anything wrong with them so I really can't respond to this. I'm gonna need a bit more than "there are better platformers," like you could tell me what you think DKC was missing.

1. i think they look poopty now, haven't aged well at all. this is a personal thing but i think they're some of the least attractive games on the snes. (save a few levels, like the first level in dkc2 looks good and the water and backgrounds in dkc3 looks fantastic. but for the most part they look disgusting)
2. i think the gameplay is mediocre, doesn't feel like a perfected platformer like mario. i don't know how to describe this any better.
3. i feel like the hitboxes are poopty + i've seen people die for no reason all the time. like they roll into an enemy that requires you to roll into them and still die.
4. i don't think the originals are very fun, but i think dkc:r is fun and offers more interesting levels
5. i feel like the screen is too zoomed in, i feel like near the end of dkc2 some of the deaths just feel cheap because you need to move quickly but it's impossible to be aware of your surroundings due to the content you see. when i feel in a mario game i feel like it's my fault, i don't feel that here like 40% of the time

i think they're like 7/10 games at their best
i don't know why the get all the praise they get
they just seem ok

the only thing it was missing was being good

Quote from: Viewtifulboy on March 11, 2013, 07:28:20 AM
Good job! I, Viewtifulboy, declare you the CHAMPION!

I'm the official winner of the Viewtiful Victory roleplay championship!

Custom

they have some good songs though
TOO BAD NO GOOD GAMEPLAY

Quote from: Viewtifulboy on March 11, 2013, 07:28:20 AM
Good job! I, Viewtifulboy, declare you the CHAMPION!

I'm the official winner of the Viewtiful Victory roleplay championship!

Kayo

Quote from: Custom on April 16, 2013, 08:12:43 PM
1. i think they look poopty now, haven't aged well at all. this is a personal thing but i think they're some of the least attractive games on the snes. (save a few levels, like the first level in dkc2 looks good and the water and backgrounds in dkc3 looks fantastic. but for the most part they look disgusting)
I disagree, I thought that the graphics (especially the backgrounds) were pretty good.
Quote2. i think the gameplay is mediocre, doesn't feel like a perfected platformer like mario. i don't know how to describe this any better.
I don't know what specifically makes a "perfected platformer," but then again Mario has always been and is still the king of platforming so it's not really fair to go here.
Quote3. i feel like the hitboxes are poopty + i've seen people die for no reason all the time. like they roll into an enemy that requires you to roll into them and still die.
maybe because the roll wears off right as they hit it (happens to me a lot, I'll think I can take it out but I'm just barely not close enough). Aside from that the only issue I've ever had is jumping on Klap-Traps in the first game can get a little dicey on some levels for whatever reason.
Quote4. i don't think the originals are very fun, but i think dkc:r is fun and offers more interesting levels
DKC has always had interesting levels; if there's anything that sets it apart from say, Mario platformers it's the "gimmick" levels (Blackout Basement for one, though there are better examples)
Quote5. i feel like the screen is too zoomed in, i feel like near the end of dkc2 some of the deaths just feel cheap because you need to move quickly but it's impossible to be aware of your surroundings due to the content you see. when i feel in a mario game i feel like it's my fault, i don't feel that here like 40% of the time
The original games on the SNES definitely had a smaller field of vision than SMW, etc. and that does lend itself to those kinds of issues, one that just came to me is the last level of DKC2, "Screech's Sprint" where at one point you have to float downward while weaving left and right to avoid the thorns everywhere but there's hardly any space between you and the bottom of the screen so you have to be REALLY careful...which you can't exactly do since that just so happens to be the only stage in the game with a time limit.

Quotei think they're like 7/10 games at their best
i don't know why the get all the praise they get
they just seem ok

the only thing it was missing was being good
Well I mean, come on. Those games came out in the 90s, and if you're playing them for the first time ten years later you're going to be a little tough on them. Platformers tend to not really change too drastically over time, and as such you might end up comparing a 1995 platformer to a 2004 one.

It's hard to look back on it and see it how it would have been seen initially, when you've become so accustomed to newer platformers (which play the same way but obviously will be a little better in many respects)

And if you have nostalgic connections with Mario platformers but none whatsoever with the DKC series... Well it's pretty obvious how you're going to feel about them when compared side to side.
I really hate how I've made more than 12,000 posts here. Thankfully this swaying, moving Chandelure makes it all worth it.
[move][/move]

AdamSakuru

Quote from: Custom on April 16, 2013, 07:00:34 PM
dkc:r > dkc1 > dkc2 > dkc3
fight me

people act like these games are perfect like Super Mario World and I don't understand why
maybe it's because I don't have nostalgia attached to it? they just seem okay, there are MUCH better platformers out there.

I'll have to admit that nostalgia is a huge part of it for me. DKC 1, which happens to be my favourite, is pretty generic as a platformer. That game did pave the way for what RARE would do as a 'collect-a-thon' in the following games and spin offs (DK 64). Although it was generic; It had a pretty ambient soundtrack with great tunes, controls and physics that were pretty solid and worked well into the level design with apparent thought put into it and great visuals. Nothing so impressive today, but they really pushed that style of using pre-rendered images in a game. The second and third games get more complex (like the third getting to the point where there's a lot of player input on the overworld).

By no means do I think the games are perfect (I have to agree with you, there are a lot of better experiences game wise), but I think they're pretty high up there. So, I guess you're right. My opinion on DKC Returns just stems from the nostalgia factor. It may be kind of arbitrary, because it depends entirely on what you thought of the previous games, right? I do know some who disliked the past games, but loved returns. And vice-cersa.

I personally loved the SNES trilogy quite a bit, so I had different expectations when retro staff discussed having it play like them and such. But hey, maybe I'll give the 3DS port of this game another chance with more of an open mind.

Random question: Any particular reason as to why you enjoy the first most and the third least? I'm just curious since the first happens to be my favourite of the three. What do you specifically enjoy about it above the other two?
"Time to earn our reputation!"
-Adam Sakuru

Kayo

Quote from: AdamSakuru on April 16, 2013, 09:39:25 PM
Random question: Any particular reason as to why you enjoy the first most and the third least? I'm just curious since the first happens to be my favourite of the three. What do you specifically enjoy about it above the other two?
For me, the removal of DK as a playable character hurt a little in DKC2, and the removal of DK and Diddy as playable characters in DKC3 as well as every single Kremling and unaffiliated enemy from the first two games completely destroyed the last in the trilogy.
I really hate how I've made more than 12,000 posts here. Thankfully this swaying, moving Chandelure makes it all worth it.
[move][/move]

AdamSakuru

Quote from: Kayo on April 16, 2013, 08:02:28 PM
Please name one of these levels.

I don't know many off the top of my head, but I have a few examples I remember for sure;

DKC: In one of the bonus levels (I believe in Vine Valley), you start in front of a large gap that you clearly cannot just jump across. You see some Necky's lined up very close together. So you roll into the first, get carried onwards onto the rest, as you hit more, they are spaced further away from eachother. But because you're moving so fast, you hit them and make it across safely. I always thought this was pretty smart because they incorporated the character moving faster into the enemy placement to give you a nice transition from one end of the bonus room to the other.

DKC: I'm very certain that Temple Tempest (and generally any level in a DKC game that requires you to run from something oncoming) had a few sections where the enemy placement was designed to get you across a certain section faster than if you were just running.

DKC 2: Right at the beginning of Mainbrace Mayhem, there is a sloped platform with like 5 of the squeaks walking down it. When you roll into the first one, you'll go into the next, and so on until you reach the top of the slope.

I'm sure there are more examples, I'd just have to play the games again to know.
"Time to earn our reputation!"
-Adam Sakuru

Custom

gonna try to reply to both of you

i try to compare it to mario becuase those are older platformers that i got into later in life (Like, I didn't really play Super Mario Bros 3 till middle school and 2 till like high school.)
i grew up on sonic, he was my main man. also, I did play DKC as a kid, but it was the GBC port. Even then I remember playing it often but not liking the game much. I also thought it looked really ugly back then (but it might have been due to the gbc one not looking that hot)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvYI5NhkUW8
this port

i guess i could see you guys seeing DKC:R as I see DMC: Devil May Cry. DMC is a good game, but I hate it because it's not what I want out of the series. I liked things from DMC1-4 that they changed and I feel ruined, but other could see as a fresh new experience if they weren't into the old ones. (Things like krimlings being removed or whatever)

I'm not really sure why I like the first the most. It might be the minor nostalgia I have attached to it. I just feel like the levels are the most fun to play in the first one. Also I like playing as Donkey Kong, I never liked how playing as dixie kong or god forbid kiddy kong (he's intercourse ing called dinky kong in japan)
diddy's ok

although i feel like the boss battles are the best in the second game, they're kind of easy in the first
also i feel like dkc2 forces you to use the animals way more than the first one, which i don't really like
also it makes you keep both partners for like half the secrets, which i feel like dkc1 didn't really do
to me it seems like dkc1 is far less gimmicky than the rest of the games, and i like that

also is it bad if i wanna be the guy is one of my favorite platformers?
sonic & knuckles is probably my favorite overall
but i think super mario world and super mario 64 are pretty intercourse ing good

also i think the music in donkey kong country 2 is the best (well, out of the original trilogy)


Quote from: Viewtifulboy on March 11, 2013, 07:28:20 AM
Good job! I, Viewtifulboy, declare you the CHAMPION!

I'm the official winner of the Viewtiful Victory roleplay championship!

Custom

also i feel like there's a certain graphical charm that holds up in games like sonic and smw2:yoshi's island that the dkc games just don't have
i guess the best way i can explain it is that games like donkey kong country and n64 007 look like 90's cgi, while stuff like sonic looks more like 90's hand drawn animation or a 2d disney classic or something

Quote from: Viewtifulboy on March 11, 2013, 07:28:20 AM
Good job! I, Viewtifulboy, declare you the CHAMPION!

I'm the official winner of the Viewtiful Victory roleplay championship!

AdamSakuru

Just gonna fanboy here for a second: I also love the Sonic games. My girlfriend still has her sega and all the games her parents owned. Including Sonic 1-3 (+Sonic and Knuckles) and Sonic Spin-ball. Going to be getting Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine at some point.
"Time to earn our reputation!"
-Adam Sakuru

zephilicious

customs right on this one old dkc were only popular because they were pretty and they didnt age well at all
~~ <3

Zero

Quote from: zephilicious on April 16, 2013, 11:00:56 PM
customs right on this one old dkc were only popular because they were pretty and they didnt age well at all

dude i  know you crush up NES controllers and snort them but the DKC games are classics with great level design and great music. Shiggy was just mad that Rareware made better platformers than he did.

There was a lot of love put into these games, which says a lot given the current state of the game industry.

Zero

#27
also custom you disappoint me

Practically every level throws something new at you in DKC2 and 3. 1 relies a bit too much on bouncy tires, I'll admit. Hitbox detection is something that I can't say I've had a real problem with either(this is coming from someone who has 100%'d all three games and has done multiple speed runs), but of course I've thought that the last boss in DKC1's crown didn't hit me when it actually did. Perhaps you kids are being poor sports?

There is so much variety in everything about Donkey Kong Country 2 in particular that I can't think of a single platformer that has better locations or more variety.

honestly if you don't like these games but like platformers I just don't understand you



Custom

#28
Quote from: Z on April 17, 2013, 07:21:19 AM
dude i  know you crush up NES controllers and snort them but the DKC games are classics with great level design and great music. Shiggy was just mad that Rareware made better platformers than he did.

There was a lot of love put into these games, which says a lot given the current state of the game industry.


dude the mario series is 943249x better than rareware games
banjo kazooie is easy and boring, mario 64 is a much much better 3d platformer that offers challenge and just more interesting worlds in general
the donkey kong country games are mediocre platformers at best, not even near touching games like Super Mario World or even the original NES Super Mario Bros. i'm not saying i don't like them at all or that they're even bad. I just think they're overrated and easily could've been better.

Quote from: Viewtifulboy on March 11, 2013, 07:28:20 AM
Good job! I, Viewtifulboy, declare you the CHAMPION!

I'm the official winner of the Viewtiful Victory roleplay championship!

Zero

Quote from: Custom on April 17, 2013, 09:39:45 AM
dude the mario series is 943249x better than rareware games

dude that's a lot

banjo kazooie is easy and boring, mario 64 is a much much better 3d platformer that offers challenge and just more interesting worlds in general

Mario 64 is indeed a better game than BK, but I don't really see what that has to do with DKC.

the donkey kong country games are mediocre platformers at best, not even near touching games like Super Mario World or even the original NES Super Mario Bros. i'm not saying i don't like them at all or that they're even bad. I just think they're overrated and easily could've been better.

Mediocre compared to what? Dude, mediocre oldschool platformers are games like Speedy Gonzales or Bubsy, not DKC. The DKC series earned its place among the greats already. DKC2 in particular is one "overrated" game I feel actually deserves the praise it gets.

Super Mario World is a great game but its level design is no where NEAR being as varied as DKC2's and is no where near as challenging. DKC2 tests the player in practically every level and has so much more to offer overall. The amount of secrets in DKC games is nice, and Mario games just don't have this stuff. Mario World has some variety yeah, but not as much and is far easier.

How would you have made DKC2 better? I'm curious. It's really one of those games where I draw blanks when trying to come up with blatant flaws that knock a game into mediocrity, but I can't for the intercourse ing life of me find one. You mentioned hitbox detection earlier, but I never noticed any real issues, and like I said, I intercourse ing speedrun these games.

It's a shame that these games didn't "click", with you man. They're really well made, and its a shame that more love isn't put into games like Rare put into DKC, and I can tell you for sure that Sonic & Knuckles did not have an equal amount of effort put into it, and S&K is practically my favorite genesis game next to Sonic 3.

I hated that 3 was inspired by Canada. what the intercourse  rare